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01-27-2007, 07:42 AM

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote:

>On Jan 26, 8:00 am, Mark Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:

>> Some of the new 2-seat LSAs will fly circles around the 152, in every
>> major respect. Here's a typical example - got a MUCH wider ****pit
>> than the cramped 152, lands and takes off in less space, has well over
>> double the range, burns less fuel, and "auto fuel" at that - not the
>> endangered and expensive 100LL - and cruises about 25-30mph faster...
>>
>> http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/ot...ORTCRUISER.htm
>>
>> There are others that are a bit more "svelte" that have higher cruise
>> speeds, and others that are designed around a particular parameter
>> (like STOL performance). But in general the new LSA are lighter,
>> stronger, faster and more comfortable than the spam cans they replace.
>
>What kind of license do you have? I have lots of hours in Cessna(I have
>an ATP) and a C-172 will have comparible performance, uses car gas,
>holds 4 people and was designed in the 60s. I'd be willing to bet the
>A/C you mentioned rents for more than the $95wet, available locally in
>Boulder. 'Spam cans', until you tell me your flight experience, I'll
>hold off saying anything about 'real' a/c and rehashed, semi mass
>produced ultralights.

I think ANY GA aircraft will fall into the "semi mass produced"
category - always been a VERY small market. My dad used to fly ferry
flights for Piper, and talks about the guy at the "door alignment
station". Jammed a 2x4 between the door and heaved on it to bend the
door to make it close correctly.

I haven't flown in many years - had 30 something hours in a 152 and a
Cherokee 180 by the time I was 17, and was getting ready to do my solo
XC when the airport burned to the ground. Oh well...

> If Cessna decides to enter the sportr a/c market,
>I'll be willing to bet it will be a nicer product than that one shown.

Probably so - they had a prototype at Oshkosh IIRC. No doubt they'll
immediately be the 800 pound gorilla in the room if they do enter the
market.

>Geezzz mark, you sound lie you have flown this new wunderplane and are
>all amazed...Rotax..aircooled?

No, I haven't flown it, but there are a number of watercooled Sport
Aircraft eligible aircraft showing up in the trainer market. That was
just the first one that showed up in a google search.

A better example (and one I'd consider building myownself) is the
Europa. It's available as a homebuilt and is being produced as a LSA.
Amazing performance (real numbers, BTW) and it appears enough room
behind the seats for a couple bikes (the really important aspect)...

But compare the numbers to the 152...

44" wide ****pit
85 horsepower watercooled Rotax 912S
620 pounds
Cruise: 161mph
Range: 590 miles
Takeoff roll: 541 feet

152
****pit width: 40" ??? (is it even that wide? I know that I was
wedged into the 150 I used to fly if the instructor was on board))
110 horsepower
Useful load: 589 pounds
Cruise: 115mph
Range: 477 miles
Takeoff roll: 750 feet

And... the Rotax is a LOT quieter than the Lycoming O-235.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

01-27-2007, 07:42 AM	#138 (permalink)
Mark Hickey Guest Posts: n/a	Re: OT Interesting video "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote: >On Jan 26, 8:00 am, Mark Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote: >> Some of the new 2-seat LSAs will fly circles around the 152, in every >> major respect. Here's a typical example - got a MUCH wider **pit >> than the cramped 152, lands and takes off in less space, has well over >> double the range, burns less fuel, and "auto fuel" at that - not the >> endangered and expensive 100LL - and cruises about 25-30mph faster... >> >> http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/ot...ORTCRUISER.htm >> >> There are others that are a bit more "svelte" that have higher cruise >> speeds, and others that are designed around a particular parameter >> (like STOL performance). But in general the new LSA are lighter, >> stronger, faster and more comfortable than the spam cans they replace. > >What kind of license do you have? I have lots of hours in Cessna(I have >an ATP) and a C-172 will have comparible performance, uses car gas, >holds 4 people and was designed in the 60s. I'd be willing to bet the >A/C you mentioned rents for more than the $95wet, available locally in >Boulder. 'Spam cans', until you tell me your flight experience, I'll >hold off saying anything about 'real' a/c and rehashed, semi mass >produced ultralights. I think ANY GA aircraft will fall into the "semi mass produced" category - always been a VERY small market. My dad used to fly ferry flights for Piper, and talks about the guy at the "door alignment station". Jammed a 2x4 between the door and heaved on it to bend the door to make it close correctly. I haven't flown in many years - had 30 something hours in a 152 and a Cherokee 180 by the time I was 17, and was getting ready to do my solo XC when the airport burned to the ground. Oh well... > If Cessna decides to enter the sportr a/c market, >I'll be willing to bet it will be a nicer product than that one shown. Probably so - they had a prototype at Oshkosh IIRC. No doubt they'll immediately be the 800 pound gorilla in the room if they do enter the market. >Geezzz mark, you sound lie you have flown this new wunderplane and are >all amazed...Rotax..aircooled? No, I haven't flown it, but there are a number of watercooled Sport Aircraft eligible aircraft showing up in the trainer market. That was just the first one that showed up in a google search. A better example (and one I'd consider building myownself) is the Europa. It's available as a homebuilt and is being produced as a LSA. Amazing performance (real numbers, BTW) and it appears enough room behind the seats for a couple bikes (the really important aspect)... But compare the numbers to the 152... 44" wide pit 85 horsepower watercooled Rotax 912S 620 pounds Cruise: 161mph Range: 590 miles Takeoff roll: 541 feet 152 **pit width: 40" ??? (is it even that wide? I know that I was wedged into the 150 I used to fly if the instructor was on board)) 110 horsepower Useful load: 589 pounds Cruise: 115mph Range: 477 miles Takeoff roll: 750 feet And... the Rotax is a LOT quieter than the Lycoming O-235. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $795 ti frame