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01-27-2007, 11:08 AM

On Jan 27, 7:42 am, Mark Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <p...@vecchios.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Jan 26, 8:00 am, Mark Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
> >> Some of the new 2-seat LSAs will fly circles around the 152, in every
> >> major respect. Here's a typical example - got a MUCH wider ****pit
> >> than the cramped 152, lands and takes off in less space, has well over
> >> double the range, burns less fuel, and "auto fuel" at that - not the
> >> endangered and expensive 100LL - and cruises about 25-30mph faster...
>
> >>http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/ot...ORTCRUISER.htm
>
> >> There are others that are a bit more "svelte" that have higher cruise
> >> speeds, and others that are designed around a particular parameter
> >> (like STOL performance). But in general the new LSA are lighter,
> >> stronger, faster and more comfortable than the spam cans they replace.
>
> >What kind of license do you have? I have lots of hours in Cessna(I have
> >an ATP) and a C-172 will have comparible performance, uses car gas,
> >holds 4 people and was designed in the 60s. I'd be willing to bet the
> >A/C you mentioned rents for more than the $95wet, available locally in
> >Boulder. 'Spam cans', until you tell me your flight experience, I'll
> >hold off saying anything about 'real' a/c and rehashed, semi mass
> >produced ultralights.I think ANY GA aircraft will fall into the "semi mass produced"
> category - always been a VERY small market. My dad used to fly ferry
> flights for Piper, and talks about the guy at the "door alignment
> station". Jammed a 2x4 between the door and heaved on it to bend the
> door to make it close correctly.
>
> I haven't flown in many years - had 30 something hours in a 152 and a
> Cherokee 180 by the time I was 17, and was getting ready to do my solo
> XC when the airport burned to the ground. Oh well...
>
> > If Cessna decides to enter the sportr a/c market,
> >I'll be willing to bet it will be a nicer product than that one shown.Probably so - they had a prototype at Oshkosh IIRC. No doubt they'll
> immediately be the 800 pound gorilla in the room if they do enter the
> market.
>
> >Geezzz mark, you sound lie you have flown this new wunderplane and are
> >all amazed...Rotax..aircooled?No, I haven't flown it, but there are a number of watercooled Sport
> Aircraft eligible aircraft showing up in the trainer market. That was
> just the first one that showed up in a google search.
>
> A better example (and one I'd consider building myownself) is the
> Europa. It's available as a homebuilt and is being produced as a LSA.
> Amazing performance (real numbers, BTW) and it appears enough room
> behind the seats for a couple bikes (the really important aspect)...
>
> But compare the numbers to the 152...
>
> 44" wide ****pit
> 85 horsepower watercooled Rotax 912S
> 620 pounds
> Cruise: 161mph
> Range: 590 miles
> Takeoff roll: 541 feet
>
> 152
> ****pit width: 40" ??? (is it even that wide? I know that I was
> wedged into the 150 I used to fly if the instructor was on board))
> 110 horsepower
> Useful load: 589 pounds
> Cruise: 115mph
> Range: 477 miles
> Takeoff roll: 750 feet
>
> And... the Rotax is a LOT quieter than the Lycoming O-235.
>
> Mark Hickey
> Habanero Cycleshttp://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $795 ti frame

ahh geezzz..this is so apples and oranges...these LSA are all 'home
builts', very limited to both who can fly them(meaning sport pilots
can fly these ONLY) and what they are. Remember a sport pilot can't
even fly a C-152 legally. Great that there is a way for people to fly
more cheaply and easier but this program really is a 'bicycle with
training wheels'. I can't imagine any SP would stay that way, would
get another 20 hours and be a genuine private pilot, with all the
benefits that carries, like the ability to get an instrument rating.
BUT these are not 'trainers', will not be used for anybody wanting to
get a private ticket. This is a formal way for sombody to fly an
ultralight...not much more.

01-27-2007, 11:08 AM	#139 (permalink)
Qui si parla Campagnolo Guest Posts: n/a	Re: OT Interesting video On Jan 27, 7:42 am, Mark Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote: > "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <p...@vecchios.com> wrote: > > > > >On Jan 26, 8:00 am, Mark Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote: > >> Some of the new 2-seat LSAs will fly circles around the 152, in every > >> major respect. Here's a typical example - got a MUCH wider **pit > >> than the cramped 152, lands and takes off in less space, has well over > >> double the range, burns less fuel, and "auto fuel" at that - not the > >> endangered and expensive 100LL - and cruises about 25-30mph faster... > > >>http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/ot...ORTCRUISER.htm > > >> There are others that are a bit more "svelte" that have higher cruise > >> speeds, and others that are designed around a particular parameter > >> (like STOL performance). But in general the new LSA are lighter, > >> stronger, faster and more comfortable than the spam cans they replace. > > >What kind of license do you have? I have lots of hours in Cessna(I have > >an ATP) and a C-172 will have comparible performance, uses car gas, > >holds 4 people and was designed in the 60s. I'd be willing to bet the > >A/C you mentioned rents for more than the $95wet, available locally in > >Boulder. 'Spam cans', until you tell me your flight experience, I'll > >hold off saying anything about 'real' a/c and rehashed, semi mass > >produced ultralights.I think ANY GA aircraft will fall into the "semi mass produced" > category - always been a VERY small market. My dad used to fly ferry > flights for Piper, and talks about the guy at the "door alignment > station". Jammed a 2x4 between the door and heaved on it to bend the > door to make it close correctly. > > I haven't flown in many years - had 30 something hours in a 152 and a > Cherokee 180 by the time I was 17, and was getting ready to do my solo > XC when the airport burned to the ground. Oh well... > > > If Cessna decides to enter the sportr a/c market, > >I'll be willing to bet it will be a nicer product than that one shown.Probably so - they had a prototype at Oshkosh IIRC. No doubt they'll > immediately be the 800 pound gorilla in the room if they do enter the > market. > > >Geezzz mark, you sound lie you have flown this new wunderplane and are > >all amazed...Rotax..aircooled?No, I haven't flown it, but there are a number of watercooled Sport > Aircraft eligible aircraft showing up in the trainer market. That was > just the first one that showed up in a google search. > > A better example (and one I'd consider building myownself) is the > Europa. It's available as a homebuilt and is being produced as a LSA. > Amazing performance (real numbers, BTW) and it appears enough room > behind the seats for a couple bikes (the really important aspect)... > > But compare the numbers to the 152... > > 44" wide pit > 85 horsepower watercooled Rotax 912S > 620 pounds > Cruise: 161mph > Range: 590 miles > Takeoff roll: 541 feet > > 152 > **pit width: 40" ??? (is it even that wide? I know that I was > wedged into the 150 I used to fly if the instructor was on board)) > 110 horsepower > Useful load: 589 pounds > Cruise: 115mph > Range: 477 miles > Takeoff roll: 750 feet > > And... the Rotax is a LOT quieter than the Lycoming O-235. > > Mark Hickey > Habanero Cycleshttp://www.habcycles.com > Home of the $795 ti frame ahh geezzz..this is so apples and oranges...these LSA are all 'home builts', very limited to both who can fly them(meaning sport pilots can fly these ONLY) and what they are. Remember a sport pilot can't even fly a C-152 legally. Great that there is a way for people to fly more cheaply and easier but this program really is a 'bicycle with training wheels'. I can't imagine any SP would stay that way, would get another 20 hours and be a genuine private pilot, with all the benefits that carries, like the ability to get an instrument rating. BUT these are not 'trainers', will not be used for anybody wanting to get a private ticket. This is a formal way for sombody to fly an ultralight...not much more.