| Re: logic speeding away
CONTINUED...
On Feb 2, 3:58 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> Also, Dennerlein did not give any injury/mile information that I can
> see. The per-mile data was one of the valuable points of Moritz's
> paper.
Full-time messengers ride about 5 times as many
miles annually as the respondents in the Moritz
survey.
It is impressive that the rates for these two
populations are in the same ballpark, considering
the substantial portion of godawful rookies among
the messengers, and their requirement to
work in all types of weather, and on road surfaces
that recreational riders wouldn't (and shouldn't)
dream of riding.
If we forced all the LAB members to spread their
riding evenly throughout the year like the messengers,
instead of concentrating it in dry happy weather,
we can only surmise that their accident rate would
spike dramatically. Riding on ice is probably the most
challenging and dangerous thing an everyday
cyclist can do.
> > If a veteran messenger does get hit, it is far more likely
> > to occur under a green light than a red one.
> I'll simply ask for documentation. Got data?
Well, I have known so many messengers that
I know with certainty that my own experience -- of
burning several hundred thousand red lights
without a single incident but getting hit while
riding lawfully -- is the typical one.
Running a red light puts your mind in a
certain place. There is no pretense that
this or that vehicle will slow or stop or
yield in any way. You KNOW you have to
remain absolutely vigilant. Under a green,
however, it is far easier to make happy
assumptions, drift off.
The trick is to bring the same type of awareness
you would use while running a red light to
running a green light intersection, where any
number of motorist mistakes can do you in if
you're not ready for them.
> I'm sure you don't, of course. Such data would be very difficult to
> gather. But it does bring us to the crux of the question, I think.
> Is crossing an intersection with the green light better or worse than
> that for crossing under the red light?
>
> You seem to be saying it makes no difference;
I'm saying it depends.
>that you're no more
> likely to get hit while violating a red light than while accepting a
> green light, particularly if you're "aware." To me, that seems pretty
> ludicrous.
What I said was exactly what I said:
Veteran messengers are far more likely to get hit
under green lights than red ones. It's not
'ludicrous,' it's the truth.
> Well, a given messenger can hardly run lights all day, every day and
> _also_ obey laws all day every day!
Messengers probably spend the majority of their
time riding in a manner that is technically legal.
They do both all day every day. Your bike is on
a hook in the garage.
> I will admit, messengers will learn an awful lot in a short time.
> However, I'll note thathttp://www.hsph.harvard.edu/ergonomics/bike/
> mentions being "doored" as a common cause of injury. To me, that
> sounds like evidence of some holes in their knowledge! Vehicular
> Cycling is pretty clear about avoiding door zones.
One thing rookie messengers need to learn is that there
are door zones on both sides of vehicles in stop and go
traffic.
> In summary, a bike messenger might have some valid points to
> contribute, but he'd probably have some weird ideas as well. I'd go
> with the opinions of a more disciplined team of experts.
I'd go with whoever has vastly more experience.
TO BE CONTINUED...
Robert
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