"Humans 'very likely' making earth warmer" is wrong - Page 2

02-01-2007, 05:25 PM

"Don Klipstein" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> In article <a4twh.15247$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].prodigy.net >, Lee K wrote:
>>
>>"donquijote1954" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>>news:1170357571.517834.230020@p10g2000cwp.google groups.com...
>>>
>>> there is a
>>> 90 percent chance that global warming is human-caused.
>>
>>
>>" While humanity's three billion
>> tonnes (gigatonnes, or GT) per year net contribution to the
>> atmosphere's CO2 load appears large on a human scale, it is actually
>> less than half of 1% of the atmosphere's total CO2 content (750-830
>> GT). The CO2 emissions of our civilization are also dwarfed by the
>> 210 GT/year emissions of the gas from Earth's oceans and land.
>> Perhaps even more significant is the fact that the uncertainty in the
>> measurement of atmospheric CO2 content is 80 GT -- making three GT
>> seem hardly worth mentioning."
>
> Human activity is adding more like 25 gigatons of CO2 to the
> atmosphere annually, just from burning of fossil fuels. The latest
> figures are about 7 PgC, which is 7 petagrams of carbon annually, and
> multiply that by 44/12 to get petagrams (gigatons) of CO2.
>
> All the other carbon is just circulating around the biosphere,
> hydrosphere and atmosphere. Burning of fossil fuels is adding carbon to
> these at a rate of 7 gigatons of carbon, or 25 gigatons of CO2, per year.
>
> - Don Klipstein ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])

Credentialed scientists in the cited article differ with your take: "The CO2
emissions of our civilization are also dwarfed by the 210 GT/year emissions
of the gas from Earth's oceans and land."

02-01-2007, 07:08 PM

On Thu, "Lee K" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>"Don Klipstein" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
>> All the other carbon is just circulating around the biosphere,
>> hydrosphere and atmosphere. Burning of fossil fuels is adding carbon to
>> these at a rate of 7 gigatons of carbon, or 25 gigatons of CO2, per year.
>
>Credentialed scientists in the cited article differ with your take: "The CO2
>emissions of our civilization are also dwarfed by the 210 GT/year emissions
>of the gas from Earth's oceans and land."

An interesting article;

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Thanks for posting it, today NBC Nightly News had
a preview of the global warming report expected tomorrow,
as "very likely" something, at least they aren't as ****sure
as the amateur proponents.
And in opposition in flavor, they showed video of
cattle freezing and starving in the central US plains where
4 feet of snow fell in the last few weeks.

But more topical, I am watching a documentary
on George Washington Carver and all the soy and peanut
products he pioneered or invented, soy diesel and plastics
and even newspaper inks are replacing petroleum products,
and are renewable, even the Ford U car made of soy plastic
was surprise to me, even though I have known for 60 years
about soy plastics;

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Renewables allow ignoring the global warming
argument, renewables are the way to attack the problem,
wastefulness should be avoided, but CO2 allocations and
reductions in economic activity are not as effective.

Joe Fischer

02-01-2007, 07:12 PM

donquijote1954 wrote:
> Hey, that I knew. What is missing in this report though is who among
> humans are to blame. See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: some drive Stupid
> Unnecessary Vehicles while others ride bicycles.

Others simply post spam and troll messages to Usenet, thus wasting
electricity on the thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of
thousands?) of Usenet servers worldwide.

- Logan

02-02-2007, 12:16 AM

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:12:28 -0600, Logan Shaw
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com> wrote:

>donquijote1954 wrote:
>> Hey, that I knew. What is missing in this report though is who among
>> humans are to blame. See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: some drive Stupid
>> Unnecessary Vehicles while others ride bicycles.
>
>Others simply post spam and troll messages to Usenet, thus wasting
>electricity on the thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of
>thousands?) of Usenet servers worldwide.
>
> - Logan

It really doesnt matter whether mankind is or isnt causing global
warming because there simply is no solution to a global problem.
The world is comprised of some 190 countries all with their own
Governments who will all do their own thing and there will be no
agreement about what should be done, ever.
The world has no mechanism for solving a global problem.
How is anyone going to stop a country like China from building its
500 coal fired power stations.

02-02-2007, 02:31 AM

On Feb 2, 1:16 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au (Mauried) wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:12:28 -0600, Logan Shaw
>
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com> wrote:
> >donquijote1954 wrote:
> >> Hey, that I knew. What is missing in this report though is who among
> >> humans are to blame. See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: some drive Stupid
> >> Unnecessary Vehicles while others ride bicycles.
>
> >Others simply post spam and troll messages to Usenet, thus wasting
> >electricity on the thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of
> >thousands?) of Usenet servers worldwide.
>
> > - Logan
>
> It really doesnt matter whether mankind is or isnt causing global
> warming because there simply is no solution to a global problem.
> The world is comprised of some 190 countries all with their own
> Governments who will all do their own thing and there will be no
> agreement about what should be done, ever.
> The world has no mechanism for solving a global problem.
> How is anyone going to stop a country like China from building its
> 500 coal fired power stations.

personal transportation is one thing, but generation of power for air
conditioning, computers, display lighting could be seen as over the
top. shipping products worldwide instead of buying what is produced
locally also creates much pollution.
we can talk to people around the world but have in many places
isolated ourselves from our neighbors. people live in fear of what's
just outside their door and now children are driven everywhere for
protection, the sense of community has just about disappeared in many
places. when i think about all of the bike things i've had shipped to
and fro, even as a daily bike commuter i'm a bit ashamed.

02-02-2007, 04:41 AM

On Feb 1, 6:53 pm, Cosmopolite <anywh...@anywhen.net> wrote:
> > THE BANANA REVOLUTION

> >[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> And how much pollution does the manufacture, shipping and retailing
> of a bycicle cause. Since you are using the internet, you are also to
> blame for the pollution that computer manufacture etc. and power
> production emitt.
>
> In short, we are all in this TOGETHER.

- Hide quoted text -

NO, NO and NO. I'm a frugal monkey (notice the group above called
"frugal-living"), not a hungry lion. Monkeys are COOPERATIVE and
perhaps there is the most room for frugality.

Here's some pep talk for the revolution coming soon...

Continuing with the coops, here are some good reasons why many people
would join them if given the choice...

"Most people are living on Kibbutz Arava for two reasons: 1.) to be
able to work for themselves [no politician, no bureaucrat, no boss, in
other words, no lion], and 2.) to be able to raise their children in a
safe and comfortable environment [in other words, no jungle]. In a
world whose cities are increasingly becoming more polarized and
violent, these basic wants/needs are synonymous with life on a
kibbutz.

Internally, Kibbutz Arava functions rather communally and
ecologically. There is a central dining room and commons area. Food
that is eaten in the dining room arrives as bulk, wholesale crates,
thus eliminating retail wastes such as packaging and plastic wrappers.
The kibbutz is a pedestrian community. People are able to walk and
ride their bikes to any kibbutz activity. In fact, there are only five
leisure cars available for the 130 adult members. On kibbutz, people
don't throw much away. When things break, they are fixed either by the
garage, carpentry shop, or laundry. Things are not easily thrown away,
as items are scarce. There are public commodities, such as a coffee
and tea lounge, a pool, an entertainment area, a computer and fax
room, a music studio, and a horse stable. By offering these amenities,
the kibbutz eliminates the need for everyone to have their own TV,
computer, etc [no consumerism, which feeds the lion]."

kibbutz... [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

02-02-2007, 04:46 AM

Leo Lichtman wrote:
> "donquijote1954" wrote: (CLIP) See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: (CLIP)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Answer a few questions:
> 1.) How does the LBS get its merchandise? Is there any fuel consumed in
> the delivery?
> 2.) How does mail get to your house?
> 3.) Do you use electricity? How is it generated?
> 4.) How do the groceries get from the producer to the store?
> ...Need I go on?

OK, let's create a scale, in which, say, I'm a 5 and the SUV gas-
guzzlers are a 10 (the perfect polluter), then I would be ready to
move down perhaps to a 3, provided I'm safe to go out and ride my
bike. And then perhaps I would need a kibbutz coop and reduce my need
to a 1 (0 is when you die).

02-02-2007, 04:47 AM

On Feb 1, 12:19 pm, "donquijote1954" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> Hey, that I knew. What is missing in this report though is who among
> humans are to blame. See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: some drive Stupid
> Unnecessary Vehicles while others ride bicycles. And how about those
> who --like me-- want to ride a bike, but find there's no safe place
> for it. It's a frightful jungle out there, you know. So we must sit
> back and swallow in disgust reports like this that blame all humans.

So how do you get around? If you don't use a bicycle or auto? Do you
walk? Do you have shoes? Clothes?
Does your abode have electricity? Does your bicycle have rubber parts?
and how do ya suppose those things was made? Do you think it was made
offshore by a CO2 nuetral company, In CHINA.....unlikely. So you do
add to the problem, less than some, but you still do..rest of crappola
snipped.

02-02-2007, 04:49 AM

On Feb 1, 1:59 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2:54 pm, Bill Baka <b...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > donquijote1954 wrote:
> > > Hey, that I knew. What is missing in this report though is who among
> > > humans are to blame. See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: some drive Stupid
> > > Unnecessary Vehicles while others ride bicycles.
>
> > Now you sucked me in. ALL humans pollute just by breathing and exhaling
> > CO2, and 6 billion plus pollute a lot.
> > If they would stop destroying the rain forest there would be trees and
> > vegetation to recycle the CO2. Add to that that burning the rain forest
> > makes CO2 and you have 2 bads and no goods.
>
> You are telling me that someone commuting by bike pollutes nearly as
> much as someone riding an SUV just to please his ego? Then the SUVs
> are not a problem and nothing is a problem and nothing gets done.
>
> If you drive an SUV you are the symbol of pollution, though we may all
> pollute to different degrees. It's the ones that don't care and don't
> want to change, the ones guilty for pollution. And they go to Hell, I
> hope.

God doesn't care if you drive a car or ride a bicycle. Less polluting
vehicles do not put you on any sort of good karma list.

Unless, of course, they write the story. They should buy one of
> these bumper stickers...

>
> Yep, that's a miracle indeed. I guess Jesus would have driven a
> Hummer. "By their deeds you shall know them."
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

02-02-2007, 04:51 AM

On Feb 2, 4:16 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au (Mauried) wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:12:28 -0600, Logan Shaw
>
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com> wrote:
> >donquijote1954 wrote:
> >> Hey, that I knew. What is missing in this report though is who among
> >> humans are to blame. See, NOT ALL HUMANS POLLUTE: some drive Stupid
> >> Unnecessary Vehicles while others ride bicycles.
>
> >Others simply post spam and troll messages to Usenet, thus wasting
> >electricity on the thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of
> >thousands?) of Usenet servers worldwide.
>
> > - Logan
>
> It really doesnt matter whether mankind is or isnt causing global
> warming because there simply is no solution to a global problem.
> The world is comprised of some 190 countries all with their own
> Governments who will all do their own thing and there will be no
> agreement about what should be done, ever.
> The world has no mechanism for solving a global problem.
> How is anyone going to stop a country like China from building its
> 500 coal fired power stations.

You said best. There's one hope though: THE REVOLUTION (coming
soon)...

WORLD REVOLUTION
"The World Revolution is an idea for a new, global activist social
movement for progressive social change. It aims to resolve in a
definitive and comprehensive manner the major social problems of our
world and our era. Major issue areas of the World Revolution include:
peace, human rights, the environment, and world poverty." http://
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!
You may have liked what you read above and decided to join in such an
effort or any other effort to change the world --for the better, of
course, because you want change that's NONVIOLENT AND DEMOCRATIC. Thus
you are part of the solution and not part of the problem. However, if
you wished for something truly different, appealing to the pleasures
of life, in a shorter time frame, because you want to live it, then
look no further and 'feel' and 'taste' our EPICUREAN REVOLUTION.*
Welcome to the 'BANANA REVOLUTION,' which attacks top-down politics by
being irreverent of power, requiring the participation of the
individual and proposing a simple yet satisfying lifestyle... WE ARE
THE REVOLUTION; WE CAN HAVE THE GOOD LIFE, HERE AND NOW. Well, it's
also very funny and sexy to make it more appetizing.

Please see [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]