Need advise on a Serotta purchase - Page 2

02-07-2007, 11:06 AM

On Feb 7, 1:28 pm, "Art Harris" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> Few riders really need a bike that expensive. Without knowing your
> abilities, I'll reserve judgement. But beyond the "new bike phenomena"
> that lasts a few weeks, I don't think the new bike will improve your
> speed or distance ability a great deal. A bike half this price should
> give you about 99 percent of the performance and motivation. Fit and
> appropriateness to the kind of riding you do are the main factors to
> consider. As with most products, there is a sweet spot in the
> performance vs. price curve. Beyond that, improvements are very subtle
> and costly.
>
> Art Harris

Proof of the pudding is at the Serotta site. Check out the annual
gathering shots.
About 3 guys have legs, the rest have wallets.

02-07-2007, 11:11 AM

On Feb 7, 2:28 pm, "Art Harris" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> Few riders really need a bike that expensive. Without knowing your
> abilities, I'll reserve judgement. But beyond the "new bike phenomena"
> that lasts a few weeks, I don't think the new bike will improve your
> speed or distance ability a great deal. A bike half this price should
> give you about 99 percent of the performance and motivation. Fit and
> appropriateness to the kind of riding you do are the main factors to
> consider. As with most products, there is a sweet spot in the
> performance vs. price curve. Beyond that, improvements are very subtle
> and costly.
>
> Art Harris

Art,

Thank you for your very sound advise. I'm an upper middle age guy and
the only excersise I get is riding - 100 miles a week weather
permitting. Being tall and realizing I probably won't be buying too
many more bikes the idea of having a frame custom built so that it is
optimized to my physique and riding style is appealling, thus the
Serotta. Not be up on the road bike scene I was surprised to find that
a completely built up bike would cost nearly three times the price of
the frame. I guess my real question is where is my sweet spot? Are the
components going into this bike over kill and would a bike costing,
say $500 less provide the same benefit? If the component group is
indeed that critical and important than perhaps it would also be wise
to upgrade to a better frame. Of course, the dealers motovations are
different from mine and his advise will reflect that perspective.

Lou

02-07-2007, 11:25 AM

On Feb 7, 2:11 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2:28 pm, "Art Harris" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> > > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> > Few riders really need a bike that expensive. Without knowing your
> > abilities, I'll reserve judgement. But beyond the "new bike phenomena"
> > that lasts a few weeks, I don't think the new bike will improve your
> > speed or distance ability a great deal. A bike half this price should
> > give you about 99 percent of the performance and motivation. Fit and
> > appropriateness to the kind of riding you do are the main factors to
> > consider. As with most products, there is a sweet spot in the
> > performance vs. price curve. Beyond that, improvements are very subtle
> > and costly.
>
> > Art Harris
>
> Art,
>
> Thank you for your very sound advise. I'm an upper middle age guy and
> the only excersise I get is riding - 100 miles a week weather
> permitting. Being tall and realizing I probably won't be buying too
> many more bikes the idea of having a frame custom built so that it is
> optimized to my physique and riding style is appealling, thus the
> Serotta.

There are plenty of builders in the States that can build you custom
without the Serotta up charge. But then, do you need a custom frame?
Are you proportioned properly so that a normal factory frame could be
dialed in with proper sized stem, post, bars, etc? A custom frame is a
fine thing, but you might not *need* one.

>Not be up on the road bike scene I was surprised to find that
> a completely built up bike would cost nearly three times the price of
> the frame. I guess my real question is where is my sweet spot? Are the
> components going into this bike over kill and would a bike costing,
> say $500 less provide the same benefit?

For one thing, your shop is wanting to spec you wheels that cost twice
what a pair of nice hand built traditional wheels would run you. The
hand builts wouldn't weigh more, and would likely be more reliable and
strong. This has been discussed ad nauseum around here. If your shop
doesn't build wheels, find one with a good reputation that does.

>If the component group is
> indeed that critical and important than perhaps it would also be wise
> to upgrade to a better frame. Of course, the dealers motovations are
> different from mine and his advise will reflect that perspective.

You can get Shimano Dura Ace or Ultegra and enjoy their long warranty--
or you can spend quite a bit less and get Campagnolo Veloce and have a
groupset that you can service and buy small parts for. If you want to
ride Shimano, 105 is as good as any recreational rider needs.
Remember, you can always get the expensive DA or Ultegra brifters to
shift 105 kit with.

If what you've mentioned is what the shop wants to sell you, then I
suspect their motivation is making a payment on a bass boat, not
getting you what would be most practical.

02-07-2007, 11:33 AM

landotter wrote:

> There are plenty of builders in the States that can build you custom
> without the Serotta up charge. But then, do you need a custom frame?
> Are you proportioned properly so that a normal factory frame could be
> dialed in with proper sized stem, post, bars, etc? A custom frame is a
> fine thing, but you might not *need* one.

True, that.

I spent a pile o' dough on a Moots road bike ... for a host of reasons
that did NOT include just having too much discretionary money.

You can't really justify a $5,000+ Serotta (or its many
equivalents)--because so many bikes will do everything you want them to
do ... virtually as well--, but then ... you don't really have to
justify it.

That said, I did the math, AND had it done for me, and had absolutely no
need for custom sizing. I'm not particularly oddly proportioned--just
generally funny looking ;-)

Serotta's got a great reputation. So do lots of other manufacturers of
high-end frames. Try to ride as many as you can--frames AND component
groups--and buy what feels and fits the best.

Have fun!

02-07-2007, 12:27 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> Thank you for your very sound advise. I'm an upper middle age guy and
> the only excersise I get is riding - 100 miles a week weather
> permitting. Being tall and realizing I probably won't be buying too
> many more bikes the idea of having a frame custom built so that it is
> optimized to my physique and riding style is appealling, thus the
> Serotta. Not be up on the road bike scene I was surprised to find that
> a completely built up bike would cost nearly three times the price of
> the frame. I guess my real question is where is my sweet spot? Are the
> components going into this bike over kill and would a bike costing,
> say $500 less provide the same benefit? If the component group is
> indeed that critical and important than perhaps it would also be wise
> to upgrade to a better frame. Of course, the dealers motovations are
> different from mine and his advise will reflect that perspective.

I think a good starting point would be to verbalize what you don't
like about your old Cannondale. What do you want it to do that it
can't.

For your kind of riding (as with mine), reliability, comfort, fit,
smooth shifting, appropriate gearing, good braking, and reasonable
weight are probably your main objectives. How does your Cannondale
stack up in those categories?

In most cases, you should be able to find a stock bike that (with
proper adjustment) will fit you fine. I'm 6'3" and never had a problem
getting a stock bike to fit. It might be more prudent to spend $100 or
so for a good fitting (that takes into account your riding style and
preferences) than to buy a custom frame that you can't test ride until
it's built.

Modern components from Campagnolo or Shimano all work very well, even
at the low end. There's little reason to buy the top of the line
components.

There's nothing wrong with conventional handbuilt wheels, aluminum
seat posts, etc. Fancy looking stuff is often just marketing. You may
find that a $1200-1500 bike will provide everything you want.

Art Harris

02-08-2007, 04:49 AM

On Feb 6, 11:08 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?

I would look elsewhere rather than a Serotta dealer of any type.

Put the biggest percentage of the $ in the frame, not the components
and certainly not those wheels. Seen lots of those wheels break
spokes. Also a carbon but end does absolutely nothing. Look at
Waterford for a truely well made steel frame w/o the hype.

02-08-2007, 04:53 AM

On Feb 7, 1:11 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2:28 pm, "Art Harris" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> > > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> > Few riders really need a bike that expensive. Without knowing your
> > abilities, I'll reserve judgement. But beyond the "new bike phenomena"
> > that lasts a few weeks, I don't think the new bike will improve your
> > speed or distance ability a great deal. A bike half this price should
> > give you about 99 percent of the performance and motivation. Fit and
> > appropriateness to the kind of riding you do are the main factors to
> > consider. As with most products, there is a sweet spot in the
> > performance vs. price curve. Beyond that, improvements are very subtle
> > and costly.
>
> > Art Harris
>
> Art,
>
> Thank you for your very sound advise. I'm an upper middle age guy and
> the only excersise I get is riding - 100 miles a week weather
> permitting. Being tall and realizing I probably won't be buying too
> many more bikes the idea of having a frame custom built so that it is
> optimized to my physique and riding style is appealling, thus the
> Serotta. Not be up on the road bike scene I was surprised to find that
> a completely built up bike would cost nearly three times the price of
> the frame. I guess my real question is where is my sweet spot? Are the
> components going into this bike over kill and would a bike costing,
> say $500 less provide the same benefit? If the component group is
> indeed that critical and important than perhaps it would also be wise
> to upgrade to a better frame. Of course, the dealers motovations are
> different from mine and his advise will reflect that perspective.
>
> Lou

Waterford R-13 series, carbon fork, Ultegra group..handbuilt wheels,
Ritchey componets..about $3000 here..Custom frame, many free color
choices..no hype, BS or typical Serotta bloviation.

02-08-2007, 05:52 AM

On Feb 8, 7:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> On Feb 6, 11:08 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> I would look elsewhere rather than a Serotta dealer of any type.
>
> Put the biggest percentage of the $ in the frame, not the components
> and certainly not those wheels. Seen lots of those wheels break
> spokes. Also a carbon but end does absolutely nothing. Look at
> Waterford for a truely well made steel frame w/o the hype.

Waterford frames cost twice as much as other similar hand built frames
with the same materials. Around here, Waterford frames are sold in the
same shops that do Serotta, don't build wheels, and try to blow all
sorts of smoke up your rectum. There's plenty of hype around them as
well. Why not a Heron for 1200 less? Or fly to the UK for the
difference and get a Mercian custom fitted.

$900 Strada Speciale frame
$800 Round trip ticket to the UK
-------
$1700, Which leaves you $800 to spend on pints at the pub and a small
room to retire to.

02-08-2007, 06:10 AM

On Feb 8, 7:52 am, "landotter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 7:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 6, 11:08 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> > I would look elsewhere rather than a Serotta dealer of any type.
>
> > Put the biggest percentage of the $ in the frame, not the components
> > and certainly not those wheels. Seen lots of those wheels break
> > spokes. Also a carbon but end does absolutely nothing. Look at
> > Waterford for a truely well made steel frame w/o the hype.
>
> Waterford frames cost twice as much as other similar hand built frames
> with the same materials. Around here, Waterford frames are sold in the
> same shops that do Serotta, don't build wheels, and try to blow all
> sorts of smoke up your rectum. There's plenty of hype around them as
> well. Why not a Heron for 1200 less? Or fly to the UK for the
> difference and get a Mercian custom fitted.
>
> $900 Strada Speciale frame
> $800 Round trip ticket to the UK
> -------
> $1700, Which leaves you $800 to spend on pints at the pub and a small
> room to retire to.

No doubt..a Heron is $1200 less than a waterford with Ultegra?..$1800
for an Ultegra bike, with the frame built in the US IS amazing. Not
saying 'offshore' frames aren't made well but a Waterford at $1300 is
not twice as much as similarly made frames with the same materials. NO
frame made in the US of TrueTemper Platinum OS with 100's of color
choices is $650. Nice to buy the frame in the UK but don't forget the
exchange rate and also gotta use that extra $ to build the bike, not
just buy a frame.

The guy was looking at an overpriced, much hype added with carbon ass
end, Serotta..another US custom made frame that is cheaper and better
made w/o the hype is Waterford.

Personally, I would rather stand on the corner with a piece of
carboard than ever sell Serotta.

02-08-2007, 06:31 AM

On Feb 8, 9:10 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:
> On Feb 8, 7:52 am, "landotter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 8, 7:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 6, 11:08 am, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > > > I'm considering purchasing a Serrota CDA. The dealer is quoting over
> > > > $4900 for the Coeur d'Acier with carbon seat stays, standard paint
> > > > with custom name option, Serotta F3, Ultegra 10sp Double Group,
> > > > Easton Orion II wheels and eveything else needed to complete the
> > > > package. I'm upgrading from a $800 Cannondale so I'm having a hard
> > > > time accepting that you can put that much on top of an $1800 frame! If
> > > > indeed this is what it takes to get a really good bike should I take
> > > > the next step and move up to the La Corsa titanium frame?
>
> > > I would look elsewhere rather than a Serotta dealer of any type.
>
> > > Put the biggest percentage of the $ in the frame, not the components
> > > and certainly not those wheels. Seen lots of those wheels break
> > > spokes. Also a carbon but end does absolutely nothing. Look at
> > > Waterford for a truely well made steel frame w/o the hype.
>
> > Waterford frames cost twice as much as other similar hand built frames
> > with the same materials. Around here, Waterford frames are sold in the
> > same shops that do Serotta, don't build wheels, and try to blow all
> > sorts of smoke up your rectum. There's plenty of hype around them as
> > well. Why not a Heron for 1200 less? Or fly to the UK for the
> > difference and get a Mercian custom fitted.
>
> > $900 Strada Speciale frame
> > $800 Round trip ticket to the UK
> > -------
> > $1700, Which leaves you $800 to spend on pints at the pub and a small
> > room to retire to.
>
> No doubt..a Heron is $1200 less than a waterford with Ultegra?..$1800
> for an Ultegra bike, with the frame built in the US IS amazing. Not
> saying 'offshore' frames aren't made well but a Waterford at $1300 is
> not twice as much as similarly made frames with the same materials.

For some reason, I thought the tag on the last Waterford I saw said,
"$2500". My bad.