Re: Buses with racks go a long way

02-06-2007, 09:35 AM

The Real Bev wrote:

> Wayne Pein wrote:

> A stop sign is one thing. Having to follow a 14-mph bicycle for blocks
> is very different. What's a front loader?

Construction equipment.

>>
>> You assume the bicyclist will get hit from behind, but this is not a
>> typical collision for lawful cyclists. Wear hi-viz clothing during the
>> day and force motorists to slow by using the full lane.
>
>
> Sorry, I truly believe that the purpose of roads is to move as many
> people as possible from one place to another as quickly as possible.

Then every road should be a freeway with full busses with no speed
limit. But that is not that case. So a better definition of the purpose
of roads is for the movement of people and goods. Celebrate rather than
denigrate slow traffic.

> Accordingly, I regard needlessly slowing traffic down as a sin, and a
> LOT of traffic-slowing (euphemistically known as 'traffic calming') is
> needless.

As a legitimate driver of a low power low impact vehicle, I view my
occasional slowing down of motorists as 1) mostly inconsequential, 2) an
unfortunate but necessary consequence, 3) a small price to pay for my
societal positives of not using fossil fuels and its attendant
negatives, and not using scarce parking spaces.

>
> Note: I ride my bicycle about as much as I drive -- 3K miles a year or
> so. I wear high-viz clothing (you can get a lot of nice day-glo
> windbreakers at yard sales), but that doesn't give me the right to slow
> down large numbers of my fellow persons.

People have an inherent right to use human power to travel. If others
are slowed, that's a shame, but I don't worry about it. Similary, I
don't fret when I drive my car and trip a light which causes cross
traffic to come to a halt so I can merge in.

>
>> Note: the stupid SHARE THE
>>
>>> ROAD (with a picture of a bicycle) signs are never placed on roads
>>> like this -- at least I've never seen any.
>>
>>
>> That is a bad sign and should be removed from guidelines.
>
>
> They're brand new, big, and that wonderful day-glo yellow-green color.
> They generally put them on streets with white-painted "bicycle" lanes --
> otherwise known as parking lanes; the City Engineer told me such lanes
> have no legal standing whatsoever, but that they serve as a
> psychological method of slowing traffic down. For that reason and that
> reason alone I'd like the damn bicycle lanes to disappear.

Bike lanes are little more than named shoulders. Shoulders are placed on
higher order roads to facilitate more and faster motor traffic by
providing recovery area and buffer from side of road elements, including
merging cross traffic. So his comment that it psychologically slows
traffic is bogus. OTOH, parked vehicles generally due slow traffic due
to "friction."

Wayne

02-06-2007, 12:31 PM

Wayne Pein wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Wayne Pein wrote:
>
>> A stop sign is one thing. Having to follow a 14-mph bicycle for blocks
>> is very different. What's a front loader?
>
> Construction equipment.

Which really has no business traveling a main road during rush hour. In
some places it may even be illegal.

>>> You assume the bicyclist will get hit from behind, but this is not a
>>> typical collision for lawful cyclists. Wear hi-viz clothing during the
>>> day and force motorists to slow by using the full lane.
>>
>> Sorry, I truly believe that the purpose of roads is to move as many
>> people as possible from one place to another as quickly as possible.
>
> Then every road should be a freeway with full busses with no speed
> limit. But that is not that case. So a better definition of the purpose
> of roads is for the movement of people and goods. Celebrate rather than
> denigrate slow traffic.

Every arterial road should be designed to move traffic as quickly as
possible. Anything less wastes time and gasoline. Residential streets
are NOT arterials and slower speeds are clearly appropriate. Real
problems arise when what were formerly residential streets become
(through lack of any other through roads) arterials. The residents
whine about all the traffic and noise and the motorists whine about the
delaying "traffic calming" tactics employed by the city road department
because, unlike the motorists, the residents vote for city officers.

>> Accordingly, I regard needlessly slowing traffic down as a sin, and a
>> LOT of traffic-slowing (euphemistically known as 'traffic calming') is
>> needless.
>
> As a legitimate driver of a low power low impact vehicle, I view my
> occasional slowing down of motorists as 1) mostly inconsequential, 2) an
> unfortunate but necessary consequence, 3) a small price to pay for my
> societal positives of not using fossil fuels and its attendant
> negatives, and not using scarce parking spaces.
>
>> Note: I ride my bicycle about as much as I drive -- 3K miles a year or
>> so. I wear high-viz clothing (you can get a lot of nice day-glo
>> windbreakers at yard sales), but that doesn't give me the right to slow
>> down large numbers of my fellow persons.
>
> People have an inherent right to use human power to travel.

Whatever idealists think, people have only the rights that they can hold
and keep. Your right to use human power to travel breaks down in the
fast lane of the freeway, as well as a lot of other places. Indeed,
attempting to exercise your "right" to use human power to travel may
result in the loss of your right to life along with your rights to
liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

> If others
> are slowed, that's a shame, but I don't worry about it. Similary, I
> don't fret when I drive my car and trip a light which causes cross
> traffic to come to a halt so I can merge in.

Except for those designed as revenue-generators, traffic light systems
are generally designed to move vehicles as efficiently as possible.
Slower-than-normal vehicles disrupt the entire system, which is not only
inefficient, it's rude.

>>> Note: the stupid SHARE THE
>>>> ROAD (with a picture of a bicycle) signs are never placed on roads
>>>> like this -- at least I've never seen any.
>>>
>>> That is a bad sign and should be removed from guidelines.
>>
>> They're brand new, big, and that wonderful day-glo yellow-green color.
>> They generally put them on streets with white-painted "bicycle" lanes --
>> otherwise known as parking lanes; the City Engineer told me such lanes
>> have no legal standing whatsoever, but that they serve as a
>> psychological method of slowing traffic down. For that reason and that
>> reason alone I'd like the damn bicycle lanes to disappear.
>
> Bike lanes are little more than named shoulders. Shoulders are placed on
> higher order roads to facilitate more and faster motor traffic by
> providing recovery area and buffer from side of road elements, including
> merging cross traffic. So his comment that it psychologically slows
> traffic is bogus. OTOH, parked vehicles generally due slow traffic due
> to "friction."

It might actually be true. Perhaps the presence of a solid line to the
right makes the driver's current lane seem narrower, engendering the
feeling that he should perhaps drive a bit slower because there isn't a
lot of squish room available.

The road of which he spoke has two lanes of traffic plus a parking lane
in each direction. The road is straight and not heavily traveled,
allowing high practical speeds, even though the speed limit is 45.

If they're going to put in bicycle lanes, they should prohibit parking
in them -- anything else just gives the illusion of safety. Indeed,
many of them are actually more dangerous to the bicyclists because they
used some thick plastic stuff instead of paint, and it becomes slippery
when damp -- just exactly what you want to cross at an infinitesimal
angle to avoid both the car parked in front of you and the car
approaching at 50 mph behind you.

--
Cheers, Bev
===================================
New sig on order, watch this space.