Re: logic speeding away

02-06-2007, 01:40 PM

On Feb 5, 1:55 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> On Feb 2, 3:58 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > > I'll just repeat this part. A person can ride (1) without
> > > > > awareness and not according to the rules of the road,
> > > > > (2) without awareness and according to the rules of the
> > > > > road, (3) with awareness and not according to the rules
> > > > > of the road, or (4) with awareness and according to the
> > > > > rules of the road. I know that 4 is safer than 3 which is
> > > > > safer than 2 which is safer than 1.
>
> > > Now do you think 3 safer than 2 or is 2 safer than 3?
>
> > I do think riding according to the rules of the road is safer than
> > violating them, even if the violater is more aware."
> You think 2 is safer than 3. Which is horribly incorrect.

Got data? Because it seems the rest of the world - except, perhaps,
for a few gonzo messengers - disagrees.

> (1) Without awareness and not according to the rules of the
> road: rider blows a red light or stop sign without even
> realizing it; ... et cetera...

And thankfully, nobody is advocating that riding style.

> (2) Without awareness and according to the rules of
> the road: rider passing legally through green light fails
> to account for possibility of left-turner not seeing him;
[etc.]

And again, nobody is advocating that riding style.

Which is, of course, one of the roots of our disagreement. You
falsely claim Vehicular Cycling (or Effective Cycling) teaches that
style. But it most certainly does not, and I've given many examples
as proof.

> > But I do think riding according to the rules of the road is safer than
> > violating them, even if the violater is more aware.
>
> Over several decades, bike messengers have proven this
> assertion of yours wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Well, then, there must be reams of data that indicate this without a
shadow of a doubt, right?

Where is that data?

Unfortunately, until now you're apparently the only person who has
found that data. The rest of the bicycling community seems to
disagree.

Oh, except for folks like Wrong Way Bill, who says "Yeah, I ride
facing traffic so I can see 'em coming." So I guess that's two of
you.

- Frank Krygowski