Re: logic speeding away - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

02-06-2007, 01:53 PM

On Feb 5, 4:07 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
> CONTINUED...
>
> On Feb 2, 3:58 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
> > > [R12345:]
> > > If a veteran messenger does get hit, it is far more likely
> > > to occur under a green light than a red one.
> > I'll simply ask for documentation. Got data?
>
> Well, I have known so many messengers that
> I know with certainty that my own experience -- of
> burning several hundred thousand red lights
> without a single incident but getting hit while
> riding lawfully -- is the typical one.

Hmm. "Your own experience." Sounds like you've got no data.

> Running a red light puts your mind in a
> certain place.

:-) I'll leave that "place" to the imagination of the readers!

> There is no pretense that
> this or that vehicle will slow or stop or
> yield in any way. You KNOW you have to
> remain absolutely vigilant. Under a green,
> however, it is far easier to make happy
> assumptions, drift off.

One of the major weaknesses of your argument is this: While none of
us would dare doubt your ninja-like awareness and reflexes, your
amazing ability to become one with the stream of traffic, and your
ability to rise above any need for obeying traffic laws... ;-)

.... The techniques you advocate are likely to take the next 18 year
old who reads them, and wrap him around a Chevrolet.

Of _course_ he's going to "know" he's good enough to pull off any move
he wants to. That's what being 18 is all about. And he may even have
excellent reflexes, excellent speed and excellent vision.

But the odds are all he's really got is an excellent testosterone
level, and the stupid feeling of invulerability that comes with it.

The type of behavior that you advocate is decried not only recognized
bicycling experts; it's also decried by motorcycling experts and
driving experts.

> > Is crossing an intersection with the green light better or worse than
> > that for crossing under the red light?
>
> > You seem to be saying it makes no difference;
>
> I'm saying it depends.

Wonderful. Leave it to the instantaneous judgement of an 18 year old
kid in a hurry? Yeah, that should work.

- Frank Krygowski

02-07-2007, 10:08 PM

On Feb 6, 3:53 pm, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

> ... The techniques you advocate are likely to take the next 18 year
> old who reads them, and wrap him around a Chevrolet.

....and...

> The type of behavior that you advocate...

Please! Sir!

Careful readers will note that I am not 'advocating' for
(or against) any specific type of behavior, and I am
definitely not suggesting that cyclists should go out and
break laws. I am simply pointing out that upon which
our safety ultimately _depends_, and that upon which
it does not ultimately depend.

thanks for keeping it straight,

Robert