New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!? - Page 4

02-12-2007, 02:19 PM

Daryl Hunt wrote:

>>>Anecdote is not proof.
>>>
>>>Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid;
>>
>>What's your proof?
>
>
> And having to ask for proof is proof in itself just how stupid it is.
>

Ignoramus, that doesn't make sense to anyone but you. Fools like you
used to think the world was flat.

Wayne

02-12-2007, 07:06 PM

"Curtis L. Russell" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> On 10 Feb 2007 07:32:01 -0800, "landotter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
> wrote:

> And let's keep deaf people off bikes.
>
> Why not be blunt - any competent cyclist can ride safely with no
> ability to hear sounds around them.

Hooray! Common sense at last!

--
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

02-13-2007, 03:38 AM

BobT wrote:
:: "Gorgeous George" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
:: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
::: WTF is this...
:::
::: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
:::
:: My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however
:: anyone that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road
:: shared with other vehicles is quite foolish.

Nonsense.

02-13-2007, 03:40 AM

Pat wrote:
:: I fail to
::: see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the
::: environment any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a
::: motorist in a luxury car with the radio turned up.
::
:: It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the
:: cyclist is many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."

Wrong. I've been overtaken by cars on plenty of occasions where I could not
hear them simply because of wind noise. The fact of the matter is, when
you're on a bike, you cannot count on hearing. You must learn to use your
eyes to see what's around you.

02-13-2007, 03:48 AM

landotter wrote:
:: On Feb 10, 7:56 am, "Gooserider" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
::: "BobT" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
:::
::: news:arjzh.57293$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
:::
:::
:::
:::: "Gorgeous George" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
:::: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
::::: WTF is this...
:::
::::: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
:::
:::: My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however
:::: anyone that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road
:::: shared with other vehicles is quite foolish.
:::
:::: A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires
:::: anyone injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity
:::: should only get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves.
:::: This would achieve the goal of protecting the public at large from
:::: this person's poor judgement but would not infringe on individual
:::: freedom with the only goal of "protecting people from themselves".
:::
:::: Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
:::
:::: Ready, set, and go.
:::
:::: BobT
:::
::: Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request
::: negate your 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling
::: is already illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean the
::: activity is "stupid". I fail to see how a cyclist wearing earphones
::: removes him from the environment any more than a motorcyclist
::: wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car with the radio
::: turned up.
::
:: You're not thinking hard enough, then. It's virtually impossible to
:: use headphones at a reasonable volume when you have to overcome wind
:: noise, so the vast majority of cyclists wearing 'phones have them at
:: a volume that's the equivalent of a car stereo that's so loud that it
:: would get you pulled over.

Nonsense. Do you have even one cite that backs you up on what the "vast
majority" does? Get real.

That's right--most sane cities have laws
:: against egregious car stereo volume as well.
::
:: Oh, and Bob, suggesting the withholding of medical treatment to
:: somebody that's stupid enough to wear headphones and get hit makes
:: you an *******. Bragging about a "libertarian streak" beforehand
:: makes you pitiful. Perhaps you should stick to the Ayn Rand and
:: Push-Up creamsicles, and stay off the Usenet.

True!

::
:: The whole headphone debate is not a bit different from listening to a
:: drunk stagger to the door and slur, "but I'm fine to drive, hic."

Nonsense.

02-13-2007, 03:50 AM

OzCableguy wrote:
:: "Curtis L. Russell" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
:: news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
::: On 10 Feb 2007 07:32:01 -0800, "landotter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
::: wrote:
::
::: And let's keep deaf people off bikes.
:::
::: Why not be blunt - any competent cyclist can ride safely with no
::: ability to hear sounds around them.
::
:: Hooray! Common sense at last!

Yes!!!

02-13-2007, 05:45 AM

Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 wrote:
:: "Gorgeous George" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
:: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
::: WTF is this...
:::
::: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
:::
::
::
:: It's a paternalistic measure, but something that makes sense. How
:: many runners, walkers and cyclists get hit by cars while listening
:: to Walkmans since their introduction in the 80s?

yeah, especially now that more and more drivers are talking on their cell
phones....lot more of that happening since the 80s.

Now iPods.
:: Although, in NYC at least, it's usually the hipsters who sport the
:: ubiquitous white Q-tip earphones all over the streets, subways and
:: curbs, bridges, wherever, and there's something to be said about
:: Darwinism.

02-13-2007, 05:49 AM

BobT wrote:
:: I agree that a motorist in a luxury car is sonically insulated from
:: the environment as much or more than a cyclist, or a runner for that
:: matter, wearing headphones playing music. On the other hand, I feel
:: that I need to protect myself from motorized traffic more when I'm
:: cycling on the road than when I'm in my luxuary car (2000 Dodge
:: truck with 120K miles and major hail damage). In the ideal world,
:: motorists would watch out for me better and always be courteous
:: etc., but in the USA where I ride, there's room for improvement. I
:: want to use all my senses, including my ears, to be aware of motor
:: vehicles on the road when I'm riding or running.

Oh, is anyone trying to stop you from doing any of this? Personally, I can
hear while wearing my buds, but I don't feel I should rely on hearing, so I
use a mirror to gain increased awareness. Any degree in senses due to not
being able to hear is compensated for by knowing that I can't rely on
hearing and thus I pay more attention.

::
:: I don't think we need a law to enforce my personal view on everyeone
:: else. My "modest proposal" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek although we
:: all should realize that behaviors that some think don't have effects
:: on others may have broader effects on society like paying for head
:: injuries in motorcycle riders that don't wear helments.
::
:: My sarcastic comment after the proposal was intended to provoke
:: debate and perhaps it worked.
::

Did you now make a comment about it being stupid to wear buds while cycling?

:: BobT

02-13-2007, 05:57 AM

Tom Keats wrote:
:: In article <s9pzh.3127$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
:: "BobT" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
::
::: I want to use all my senses, including my ears, to be aware of
::: motor vehicles on the road when I'm riding or running.
:::
::: I don't think we need a law to enforce my personal view on
::: everyeone else. My "modest proposal" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek
::: although we all should realize that behaviors that some think don't
::: have effects on others may have broader effects on society like
::: paying for head injuries in motorcycle riders that don't wear
::: helments.
::
:: Folks might be interested in the thoughts of John S. Allen
:: on this topic, so here they are:
::
:: <http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/hearing.htm>
::
:: Personally I find when riding on quieter city side streets
:: and through back alleys or access lanes my auditory sense
:: can be useful for hearing trucks' back-up beepers
:: (especially on garbage pickup day.) On the arterials,
:: all I hear is pretty much a grey-noise ambience of the
:: rumble of all season tires and wind noise that conceals
:: most other sounds. If I do manage to hear anything
:: over that dull rumble, my own hearing isn't very
:: directional so it's hard to determine the direction
:: of its source.
::
:: If there's anything wrong with listening to tunes
:: while riding or running or walking, perhaps it has
:: more to do with distracted attention than with
:: sensory deprivation.
::

Absolutely it does. I was out riding on a longly country road early one
morning with no iPod. It was so enjoyable that I simply got lost in my
thoughts. Up ahead a truck came onto the road coming towards me. We both
there approaching a side road where he would turn left. He signaled, I saw
him and thought he saw me. I didn't bother to wave at him because I knew he
saw me so I returned to my thoughts. I got to the road and he simply
proceeded to turn right into me. I saw him at the last minute and quickly
moved right off the road into the heavy gravel. He stopped short, looked at
me off my road bike in the large stones, and apologized.

There is nothing one can do about not paying attention other than to pay
attention. Likely, wearing buds doesn't rob you of anything you can count
on (unlike riding while blindfolded). Also, because of wind noise, the
volume must be kept low so you only hear music some of the time, when
conditions are right. I have never not been able to hear anyone talking to
me or passing me on another bike. It's simply not an issue and I have no
loss of comfort when riding my bike while wearing buds.

::
:: cheers,
:: Tom
::
:: --
:: Nothing is safe from me.
:: Above address is just a spam midden.
:: I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

02-13-2007, 05:59 AM

Don Wiss wrote:
:: On 10 Feb 2007, Gorgeous George <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
::
::: WTF is this...
:::
::: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
::
:: Listening to iPods with two ear buds when cycling is already illegal
:: in NY State. Just like it is when driving a car. The reason has
:: nothing to do with distraction. With both ears covered you can't
:: hear signs of danger.
::
:: See: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The reason is bogus, of course. I'm afraid that NY is engaged in robbing
its citizens are personal liberty at an alarming rate.

::
:: What I found interesting in the link is he wants to ban them while
:: running?

What's next?

::
:: Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).