Re: DIY base for Minoura Workman Pro

02-12-2007, 06:49 PM

On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "Ozark Bicycle"
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> The "self centering" feature is kinda useless, but no more so than the
> same feature on the TS-2. An alignment guage ("dishing tool") is a
> must for precision work.

This is the thing that makes me think that your frame is a fine truing
jig unless you are making wheels for someone else. Eyeball the center
(dish) and it is good enough. All you need is a decent spoke wrench.

It is a nice stand you made, BTW.

02-13-2007, 05:23 AM

On Feb 12, 9:49 pm, "Ron Ruff" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "Ozark Bicycle"
>
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > The "self centering" feature is kinda useless, but no more so than the
> > same feature on the TS-2. An alignment guage ("dishing tool") is a
> > must for precision work.
>
> This is the thing that makes me think that your frame is a fine truing
> jig unless you are making wheels for someone else.

I guess "fine" is in the eye of the beholder; yes, you can true a
wheel in your frame, if you don't mind the PIA factor. Having done
this sort of thing in the distant past, I would never want to do it
again (the pronouncements of certain self-appointed internet bicycle
gurus not withstanding). If you do this sort of thing regularly, even
a modest truing stand makes life far more pleasant. At least that was
my experience when I obtained a used (old, original model) Minoura
truing stand way back ~25 years ago.

> Eyeball the center
> (dish) and it is good enough. All you need is a decent spoke wrench.

When I said the self-centering feature is "kinda useless", I meant
that in a relative way: even the Minoura makes centering the wheel
easier than does a bike frame, especially for a rear wheel. My comment
re: an alignment guage was aimed at the goal of getting the wheel
centered to within ~1mm and doing so in a reasonable time frame.

>
> It is a nice stand you made, BTW.

Thank you!

02-13-2007, 06:14 AM

"Ozark Bicycle" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1171376596.577585.117220@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 12, 9:49 pm, "Ron Ruff" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "Ozark Bicycle"
> >
> > <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > > The "self centering" feature is kinda useless, but no more so than
the
> > > same feature on the TS-2. An alignment guage ("dishing tool") is a
> > > must for precision work.
> >
> > This is the thing that makes me think that your frame is a fine truing
> > jig unless you are making wheels for someone else.
>
> I guess "fine" is in the eye of the beholder; yes, you can true a
> wheel in your frame, if you don't mind the PIA factor. Having done
> this sort of thing in the distant past, I would never want to do it
> again (the pronouncements of certain self-appointed internet bicycle
> gurus not withstanding). If you do this sort of thing regularly, even
> a modest truing stand makes life far more pleasant. At least that was
> my experience when I obtained a used (old, original model) Minoura
> truing stand way back ~25 years ago.
>
>
> > Eyeball the center
> > (dish) and it is good enough. All you need is a decent spoke wrench.
>
> When I said the self-centering feature is "kinda useless", I meant
> that in a relative way: even the Minoura makes centering the wheel
> easier than does a bike frame, especially for a rear wheel. My comment
> re: an alignment guage was aimed at the goal of getting the wheel
> centered to within ~1mm and doing so in a reasonable time frame.
>
>
> >
> > It is a nice stand you made, BTW.
>
> Thank you!

You made a portable "truing" stand which is what you set out to
accomplish. I use mine to get wheels to within .010 (.25mm).

If I were going to be building wheels on a regular basis I'd get a Var or
Park stand.

Chas.

02-13-2007, 06:46 AM

On Feb 13, 9:14 am, "* * Chas" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>
> news:1171376596.577585.117220@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 12, 9:49 pm, "Ron Ruff" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > > On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "Ozark Bicycle"
>
> > > <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > > > The "self centering" feature is kinda useless, but no more so than
> the
> > > > same feature on the TS-2. An alignment guage ("dishing tool") is a
> > > > must for precision work.
>
> > > This is the thing that makes me think that your frame is a fine truing
> > > jig unless you are making wheels for someone else.
>
> > I guess "fine" is in the eye of the beholder; yes, you can true a
> > wheel in your frame, if you don't mind the PIA factor. Having done
> > this sort of thing in the distant past, I would never want to do it
> > again (the pronouncements of certain self-appointed internet bicycle
> > gurus not withstanding). If you do this sort of thing regularly, even
> > a modest truing stand makes life far more pleasant. At least that was
> > my experience when I obtained a used (old, original model) Minoura
> > truing stand way back ~25 years ago.
>
> > > Eyeball the center
> > > (dish) and it is good enough. All you need is a decent spoke wrench.
>
> > When I said the self-centering feature is "kinda useless", I meant
> > that in a relative way: even the Minoura makes centering the wheel
> > easier than does a bike frame, especially for a rear wheel. My comment
> > re: an alignment guage was aimed at the goal of getting the wheel
> > centered to within ~1mm and doing so in a reasonable time frame.
>
> > > It is a nice stand you made, BTW.
>
> > Thank you!
>
> You made a portable "truing" stand which is what you set out to
> accomplish.

Yes, that was the goal: a truing stand for use "in the field". That is
why I removed the vertical guage from my Minoura: it's presence made
it impossible for the stand to accept wheels mounted with anything
other than the narrowest of tires (a necessity for "quicky" truing
during a simple tune up, etc.). I found that a simple piece of tubing
mounted between the lateral truing indicators works well as a vertical
indicator when necessary and is quicker than replacing the Minoura
supplied vertical guage.

> I use mine to get wheels to within .010 (.25mm).

You mean in lateral runout?

>
> If I were going to be building wheels on a regular basis I'd get a Var or
> Park stand.
>

I've never used the VAR; I can recommend the Park TS-2, but with the
reservation that an alignment guage is needed for precision work,
despite the "automatic centering" feature.

02-13-2007, 08:30 AM

"Ozark Bicycle" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1171381614.452910.40600@h3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
<snip>
> > You made a portable "truing" stand which is what you set out to
> > accomplish.
>
> Yes, that was the goal: a truing stand for use "in the field". That is
> why I removed the vertical guage from my Minoura: it's presence made
> it impossible for the stand to accept wheels mounted with anything
> other than the narrowest of tires (a necessity for "quicky" truing
> during a simple tune up, etc.). I found that a simple piece of tubing
> mounted between the lateral truing indicators works well as a vertical
> indicator when necessary and is quicker than replacing the Minoura
> supplied vertical guage.
>
> > I use mine to get wheels to within .010 (.25mm).
>
> You mean in lateral runout?
>

Yes.... If the wheel was well built to begin with and not too trashed,
it's not too hard to get it that close. The idea being that the wheel will
stay within tolerable runout longer if it's trued better. i.e. I don't
have to mess with it again for a while. Pay me now or pay me later.

I'm not obsessive enough to try to correct ovoid rims.

> >
> > If I were going to be building wheels on a regular basis I'd get a Var
or
> > Park stand.
> >
>
> I've never used the VAR; I can recommend the Park TS-2, but with the
> reservation that an alignment guage is needed for precision work,
> despite the "automatic centering" feature.
>

The lower priced VAR #74 weighed 22 Lbs. (10 Kg) and was sturdy enough to
be used with motorcycle wheels.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

A better stand that I forgot about was the Hozan wheel truing stand. We
had one or two at our shop that were beefier than the model they sell
today. It weighed about 30 Lbs.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

They have a lot of interesting tools on their web site:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Chas.

02-13-2007, 09:21 AM

On Feb 13, 11:30 am, "* * Chas" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>
> news:1171381614.452910.40600@h3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > You made a portable "truing" stand which is what you set out to
> > > accomplish.
>
> > Yes, that was the goal: a truing stand for use "in the field". That is
> > why I removed the vertical guage from my Minoura: it's presence made
> > it impossible for the stand to accept wheels mounted with anything
> > other than the narrowest of tires (a necessity for "quicky" truing
> > during a simple tune up, etc.). I found that a simple piece of tubing
> > mounted between the lateral truing indicators works well as a vertical
> > indicator when necessary and is quicker than replacing the Minoura
> > supplied vertical guage.
>
> > > I use mine to get wheels to within .010 (.25mm).
>
> > You mean in lateral runout?
>
> Yes.... If the wheel was well built to begin with and not too trashed,
> it's not too hard to get it that close. The idea being that the wheel will
> stay within tolerable runout longer if it's trued better.

Yes, but, IME, there is an optimum combination of lateral true,
vertical true and balanced spoke tension. IOW, I wouldn't attempt to
achieve 0.25mm of lateral runout at the expense of the other two
parameters.

> i.e. I don't
> have to mess with it again for a while. Pay me now or pay me later.
>
> I'm not obsessive enough to try to correct ovoid rims.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > If I were going to be building wheels on a regular basis I'd get a Var
> or
> > > Park stand.
>
> > I've never used the VAR; I can recommend the Park TS-2, but with the
> > reservation that an alignment guage is needed for precision work,
> > despite the "automatic centering" feature.
>
> The lower priced VAR #74 weighed 22 Lbs. (10 Kg) and was sturdy enough to
> be used with motorcycle wheels.
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> A better stand that I forgot about was the Hozan wheel truing stand. We
> had one or two at our shop that were beefier than the model they sell
> today. It weighed about 30 Lbs.

Yes, the Hozan is sort of the classic old image of the truing stand
seen in shops way back 'in the day'.
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> They have a lot of interesting tools on their web site:
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> Chas.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -