Re: electric bikes on centuries

02-14-2007, 03:04 PM

On Jan 31, 12:04 pm, Bill Baka <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> OldGirl wrote:
> > A couple of clarifications:
>
> > 1. There is a federal law that states that if a bicycle has an electric
> > motor and is limited to a top speed of 20 mph, it is a considered a bicycle.
> > This preempts the state laws. Some states have a broader definition, some
> > require pedals some don't. But in all 50 states an electric bike limited to
> > 20 mph is a bike.
>
> > 2. There is an electric bike currently capable of going 100 miles on a
> > charge (if you count the main battery plus auxiliary batteries). The rider
> > has to make a significant pedalling contribution for the charge to last that
> > long, and fully loaded with auxiliary batteries it weighs about 75 lbs, but
> > it does pretty much look like a mountain bike. Here is the link:
> >[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> I took a look and can say that the bike looks less than ideal. If it has
> a motorized bottom bracket then there is no possibility for regenerative
> braking, which is a big NO-NO in the electric world. They are also
> making flaky claims like it was in a 103 mile ride, but (small print)
> with a battery change.
> The marketing guys are burying the truth in hype, as usual.
> Bill Baka

Hey Bill,

I am glad to hear that more people are discussing Optibikes. I am the
marketing guy, and the guy that rode the 103 miles in 4 hours; and we
did not do a battery change. The new Optibikes weigh in at ~ 67 lbs
and have a range of 50 miles or so. For this ride, I used a soon to be
released Li-Poly prototype. BUT, for a full suspension mountain bike
that can carry a non-cyclist along at Tour De France speeds, we are
getting people on bikes that have not ridden in years. The event that
I rode the 103 miles in was the 2006 Tour de Sol, a regulated event
that does not allow battery swapping.

A note on regen: We have found that by putting the motor in the
Bottom Bracket, we keep the wheels light (a crucial step for any high-
performance application) and we simply augment the most efficient
means of transportation on the planet (the bicycle). A hub motor is
wrong for many reasons (fixed gear ratio, heavy wheels, etc) So, my
point is, that regen makes sense with a 1200 lb car where there is
more force to regen with. With a 67 lb bike + rider, what you have to
sacrifice to get back a few watts makes no sense at all.

Our bike can cruise at nearly 35 mph, has climbed Pikes Peak, and has
the absolute longest run time and range of any E-bike. Sure, E-bikes
are not for everyone but for some people they provide a way to get out
and have some good clean fun.

Sure, there is the hype. But we are 100% honest in our claims and
have made videos to prove it. We are fighting an uphill battle
however because many other manufacturers are full of it.

Cheers,

Craig Weakley
Marketing Director
Optibike LLC
303.443.0932
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

02-14-2007, 06:43 PM

"optibike" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1171497893.254887.69650@p10g2000cwp.googlegro ups.com...
> On Jan 31, 12:04 pm, Bill Baka <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> OldGirl wrote:
>> > A couple of clarifications:
>>
>> > 1. There is a federal law that states that if a bicycle has an
>> > electric
>> > motor and is limited to a top speed of 20 mph, it is a considered a
>> > bicycle.
>> > This preempts the state laws. Some states have a broader definition,
>> > some
>> > require pedals some don't. But in all 50 states an electric bike
>> > limited to
>> > 20 mph is a bike.
>>
>> > 2. There is an electric bike currently capable of going 100 miles on a
>> > charge (if you count the main battery plus auxiliary batteries). The
>> > rider
>> > has to make a significant pedalling contribution for the charge to last
>> > that
>> > long, and fully loaded with auxiliary batteries it weighs about 75 lbs,
>> > but
>> > it does pretty much look like a mountain bike. Here is the link:
>> >[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>>
>> I took a look and can say that the bike looks less than ideal. If it has
>> a motorized bottom bracket then there is no possibility for regenerative
>> braking, which is a big NO-NO in the electric world. They are also
>> making flaky claims like it was in a 103 mile ride, but (small print)
>> with a battery change.
>> The marketing guys are burying the truth in hype, as usual.
>> Bill Baka
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> I am glad to hear that more people are discussing Optibikes. I am the
> marketing guy, and the guy that rode the 103 miles in 4 hours; and we
> did not do a battery change. The new Optibikes weigh in at ~ 67 lbs
> and have a range of 50 miles or so. For this ride, I used a soon to be
> released Li-Poly prototype. BUT, for a full suspension mountain bike
> that can carry a non-cyclist along at Tour De France speeds, we are
> getting people on bikes that have not ridden in years. The event that
> I rode the 103 miles in was the 2006 Tour de Sol, a regulated event
> that does not allow battery swapping.
>
> A note on regen: We have found that by putting the motor in the
> Bottom Bracket, we keep the wheels light (a crucial step for any high-
> performance application) and we simply augment the most efficient
> means of transportation on the planet (the bicycle). A hub motor is
> wrong for many reasons (fixed gear ratio, heavy wheels, etc) So, my
> point is, that regen makes sense with a 1200 lb car where there is
> more force to regen with. With a 67 lb bike + rider, what you have to
> sacrifice to get back a few watts makes no sense at all.
>
> Our bike can cruise at nearly 35 mph, has climbed Pikes Peak, and has
> the absolute longest run time and range of any E-bike. Sure, E-bikes
> are not for everyone but for some people they provide a way to get out
> and have some good clean fun.
>
> Sure, there is the hype. But we are 100% honest in our claims and
> have made videos to prove it. We are fighting an uphill battle
> however because many other manufacturers are full of it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Craig Weakley
> Marketing Director
> Optibike LLC
> 303.443.0932
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

And it does not meet the Low Speed Electric Bicycle nor the NHTA. This
means that it's illegal in most states to be ridden since it's too fast for
the LSEB and doesn't have the proper safety and construction for a Motorized
Vehicle including the 49cc Motorized Bicycle laws.

In Colorado, the Optibike could only be operated on Private Property and not
on Public Property (this includes the roadways and sidewalks)

>

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02-15-2007, 12:38 PM

optibike wrote:
> On Jan 31, 12:04 pm, Bill Baka <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> The marketing guys are burying the truth in hype, as usual.
>> Bill Baka
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> I am glad to hear that more people are discussing Optibikes. I am the
> marketing guy, and the guy that rode the 103 miles in 4 hours; and we
> did not do a battery change. The new Optibikes weigh in at ~ 67 lbs
> and have a range of 50 miles or so. For this ride, I used a soon to be
> released Li-Poly prototype. BUT, for a full suspension mountain bike
> that can carry a non-cyclist along at Tour De France speeds, we are
> getting people on bikes that have not ridden in years. The event that
> I rode the 103 miles in was the 2006 Tour de Sol, a regulated event
> that does not allow battery swapping.

I am glad to see someone from the factory chipping in and clarifying.
What seems to have been ignored by everyone is the fact that a lot of
electrical bikes out there are still using Centuries old Lead-Acid
batteries. They are soon to be history due to lead content, as are
NiCads. NiMh are the cheapest new tech way to go, but Lithium-Polymers
are the dominant (if expensive) way to go right now.
>
> A note on regen: We have found that by putting the motor in the
> Bottom Bracket, we keep the wheels light (a crucial step for any high-
> performance application) and we simply augment the most efficient
> means of transportation on the planet (the bicycle). A hub motor is
> wrong for many reasons (fixed gear ratio, heavy wheels, etc) So, my
> point is, that regen makes sense with a 1200 lb car where there is
> more force to regen with. With a 67 lb bike + rider, what you have to
> sacrifice to get back a few watts makes no sense at all.

Does that mean that the rider is forced to pedal or is there a free
wheel built into your bottom bracket??
>
> Our bike can cruise at nearly 35 mph, has climbed Pikes Peak, and has
> the absolute longest run time and range of any E-bike. Sure, E-bikes
> are not for everyone but for some people they provide a way to get out
> and have some good clean fun.

If you have climbed Pikes Peak, then doesn't regen make sense for
mountain rides? Coming back down that road even sitting upright for wind
resistance can be a bit more life threatening than using A; brakes, of
B; regen.
>
> Sure, there is the hype. But we are 100% honest in our claims and
> have made videos to prove it. We are fighting an uphill battle
> however because many other manufacturers are full of it.

I am with you most of the way, in particular the gearing issue. However,
just as with A/C induction motors that may run at 3600, 1800, 1200, or
even 900 RPM as a matter of phases (or divisions of 60 Hz) why not a DC
motor with electronics to control it, or even an A/C motor with an
electronic control? I'm an engineer, so I think it can be done, but I
have never been in marketing so I don't know if you could push that, or
what the added cost would be.
Good luck,
Bill Baka
>
> Cheers,
>
> Craig Weakley
> Marketing Director
> Optibike LLC
> 303.443.0932
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>