what would you do... - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

09-09-2003, 03:34 PM

The other day I am coming to a "T" interesection and I want to turn left, from
the straight through road. I get into the middle of the lane and signal. Along
comes this guy on a bike coming into the intersection , he obviously wants to
turn cause his road ends, but he moves closer to the sidwalk on his left ... his
daughter is behind him, i could see she was concerned, he made no effort to stop
or yield . It was as if he was trying to get out of the way by moving into my
lane!

I sometimes see him and his daughter riding on the wrong side of the street.
Here's my question... should I say something to this guy? Say something to his
daughter? Step off the sidewalk infront of him... ? Get in my car and run him
over? Get on my bike and show him how to ride?

oh well,
take care
Liz

09-09-2003, 04:25 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
MisNomer <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> Here's my question... should I say something to this guy? Say something to his
> daughter? Step off the sidewalk infront of him... ? Get in my car and run him
> over? Get on my bike and show him how to ride?

The road to hell is paved with intentions. And maybe
a few wrong way riders.

I'd get out of danger's way as well as I could until
it's past, even if it means getting off the road or
parking for a moment. I'm not gonna risk my neck in
a showdown with a wrong way rider, let alone two of
'em. Especially if there's car traffic around.

On the road, one's own preservation comes first.

cheers,
Tom

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09-10-2003, 06:26 AM

"MisNomer" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> The other day I am coming to a "T" interesection and I want to turn left,
from
> the straight through road. I get into the middle of the lane and signal.
Along
> comes this guy on a bike coming into the intersection , he obviously wants
to
> turn cause his road ends, but he moves closer to the sidwalk on his left
.... his
> daughter is behind him, i could see she was concerned, he made no effort
to stop
> or yield . It was as if he was trying to get out of the way by moving into
my
> lane!
>
> I sometimes see him and his daughter riding on the wrong side of the
street.
> Here's my question... should I say something to this guy? Say something to
his
> daughter? Step off the sidewalk infront of him... ? Get in my car and
run him
> over? Get on my bike and show him how to ride?
>
> oh well,
> take care
> Liz
>
>
I think I would greet him warmly as a fellow cyclist and let him know about
a cycling advocacy group of which I am a member. The group publishes
guidelines on safe riding, including advising against wrong way cycling. You
could carry something similar and give it to him the next time you see him.
If you have the time you might direct him to the section on wrong way
cycling and let him know why it is dangerous.

Unfortunately, some people will ignore this advice and cling to their old
misconceptions. If this is the case, follow Tom's advice to get out of the
way and pray the Lord has mercy on his soul.

Matthew

09-10-2003, 08:21 AM

Ordinarily I wouldn't say anything, but for his daughter's sake you might
want to.

"MisNomer" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> The other day I am coming to a "T" interesection and I want to turn left,
from
> the straight through road. I get into the middle of the lane and signal.
Along
> comes this guy on a bike coming into the intersection , he obviously wants
to
> turn cause his road ends, but he moves closer to the sidwalk on his left
.... his
> daughter is behind him, i could see she was concerned, he made no effort
to stop
> or yield . It was as if he was trying to get out of the way by moving into
my
> lane!
>
> I sometimes see him and his daughter riding on the wrong side of the
street.
> Here's my question... should I say something to this guy? Say something to
his
> daughter? Step off the sidewalk infront of him... ? Get in my car and
run him
> over? Get on my bike and show him how to ride?
>
> oh well,
> take care
> Liz
>
>
>
>
>

09-10-2003, 01:14 PM

Rick Onanian wrote (regarding wrong way cyclists):

> I vote you say something; be very diplomatic.
> You are already showing him the right way to
> ride and it's not helping.
>
> Remind him that automotive drivers don't look
> for people approaching from the right in the
> near lane when turning onto the road.

Since I was once hit by a wrong-way cyclist, this subject always
resonates with me. I agree that you should say something. The problem
is that you usually only have a few seconds to make your pitch.
There's no time for a lengthy dissertation.

My standard approach is to move well out of their path, and shout,
"Hey, you're riding on the wrong side; you're going to cause an
accident." Most often I get no response. Occasionally, someone will
offer some lame excuse. But if it makes one in a hundred change their
ways, I guess it's worth it.

Art Harris

09-10-2003, 02:04 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> ,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Art Harris) writes:

> Since I was once hit by a wrong-way cyclist, this subject always
> resonates with me. I agree that you should say something. The problem
> is that you usually only have a few seconds to make your pitch.
> There's no time for a lengthy dissertation.
>
> My standard approach is to move well out of their path, and shout,
> "Hey, you're riding on the wrong side; you're going to cause an
> accident." Most often I get no response. Occasionally, someone will
> offer some lame excuse. But if it makes one in a hundred change their
> ways, I guess it's worth it.

I believe people just get resentful and obstinate when
they (we) perceive they're being told what to do,
whether it's a suggestion to get on their own durn side
of the street, or occupying their country to shove
democracy down their throats. All too often, direct
interference, even if it's well-intentioned, just makes
matters worse. And the people we try to "change" just
cling all the more to their behaviour. That is, when
they *know* we're trying to change them. As you say,
the other (more manipulative) approaches require
lots of time.

cheers,
Tom

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09-11-2003, 04:58 PM

Rick Onanian <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].cox.net>...
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:34:25 GMT, MisNomer <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > I sometimes see him and his daughter riding on the wrong side of the
> > street.
> > Here's my question... should I say something to this guy? Say something
> > over? Get on my bike and show him how to ride?
>
> I vote you say something; be very diplomatic.
> You are already showing him the right way to
> ride and it's not helping.
>
> Remind him that automotive drivers don't look
> for people approaching from the right in the
> near lane when turning onto the road.

And in fact, just a few weeks ago a garbage truck was turning right,
not far from where Dane lives. The driver didn't look for the
wrong-way cyclist coming into the intersection, and sent the young
woman to the emergency room, last I heard, in critical condition.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
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09-12-2003, 02:59 PM

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> ,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Art Harris) writes:
> > Since I was once hit by a wrong-way cyclist, this subject always
> > resonates with me. I agree that you should say something. The problem
> > is that you usually only have a few seconds to make your pitch.
> > There's no time for a lengthy dissertation.
> >
> > My standard approach is to move well out of their path, and shout,
> > "Hey, you're riding on the wrong side; you're going to cause an
> > accident." Most often I get no response. Occasionally, someone will
> > offer some lame excuse. But if it makes one in a hundred change their
> > ways, I guess it's worth it.
> I believe people just get resentful and obstinate when they (we)
> perceive they're being told what to do, whether it's a suggestion to get
> on their own durn side of the street, or occupying their country to
> shove democracy down their throats. All too often, direct interference,
> even if it's well-intentioned, just makes matters worse. And the people
> we try to "change" just cling all the more to their behaviour. That is,
> when they *know* we're trying to change them. As you say, the other
> (more manipulative) approaches require lots of time.
> cheers, Tom
> --
> -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really
> at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Tom's exactly right - if your goal is really to help them become better
riders (and not just to yell at them for being morons) then you have to
say something diplomatically and quickly; you don't have time to give
them a lecture or tell them about effective cycling websites.

I sometimes just shout "WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD, BIMBO" but when I'm in a
helpful mood I say "It's safer to ride on the right." Some of them will
learn and others won't, but I've never had anybody get mad at me for
saying it. It helps if you say it with a little music in your voice.

One time there were three of us in the shoulder bike lane and this poor
Asian immigrant woman was coming at us on her clunker in the wrong
direction - all three of us called out something or other to her and she
must have thought we were some kind of biker gang because she panicked
and hit the curb, fell over, and ran away scared. I've always felt bad
about that.

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09-12-2003, 05:34 PM

>...when I'm in a helpful mood I say "It's safer to ride on the right."
>Some of them will learn and others won't, but I've never had anybody
>get mad at me for saying it. It helps if you say it with a little music
>in your voice.

I think it's easier to reinforce good behavior than chastise bad.

It makes my day to be able to compliment another cyclist for
their good moves, and it doesn't happen that often. People like
to give and get positive feedback in general.

If I ride with a "bike police" attitude, I'm souring my whole
experience. It's very easy to find examples of poor traffic handling
skills where I ride. If I decide that I have a responsibility to
modify the behavior of every cyclist I encounter, I'm putting myself
in a no-win situation, IMHO.

Truthfully, I'm just trying to get around, not wave the flag.

I've written here about how I'm getting used to the traffic patterns
and streets on my new commute route. The four to five lane west one
way I ride across town feeds southbound lefts at several points.
There are arrows on the pavement to indicate this.

At the same time the left curb lane is a pick up and drop off area
for delivery vans, passenger cars, etc. The right side is worse.
The traffic is dense enough that you can't see the lane markings,
grates, or manhole covers if you haven't been there a time or two
under light traffic conditions.

The good thing is that the pedestrian signals have countdown timers
on them rather than the typical red hand and white walk symbols.

When the clock hits zero, the yellow light goes on. Very handy.

At some of the feeder points the turn lane is doubled. OK, that's
the scenario, except that in the morning the traffic in the center
two lanes is going balls to the wall at 30-40 mph trying to beat
the lights (M Street between 17th and 21st for you DC types).

Tuesday last I observe three cyclists in file lanesplit into a
two lane left, minivan door pops open and lead cyclist merges
right in front of a left turning car, second cyclist breaks right,
nowhere to go, comes back left and just misses door, third
rider cuts behind the parked minivan and comes to a stop at the
curb.

Total chaos. Nobody dies. I'm in the third lane over, light
turns red and I stop. I can see all three of these folks are
a little shaken up, what am I supposed to do, give them a twelve
paragraph lecture on how not to get splattered?

Not today, I have to get to work.

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09-13-2003, 05:54 PM

DiabloScott <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>:
>I sometimes just shout "WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD, BIMBO" but when I'm in a
>helpful mood I say "It's safer to ride on the right." Some of them will
>learn and others won't, but I've never had anybody get mad at me for
>saying it. It helps if you say it with a little music in your voice.

Did you have any particular music in mind? Somehow Gilbert and Sullivan
seems right to me:
It's safer to ride on the right, the right,
It's safer to ride on the right!

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
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