Truing a wheel - how long? - Page 3

11-10-2004, 04:33 PM

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:23:30 -0800, Ravi <toravir@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Badger wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:17:55 -0800, Ravi <toravir@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
><SNIP>
>
>> Didn't get new brake pads. Only got a new tire and tube. Not sure you
>
>sorry my bad. i misread your post. i know i shouldn't have stayed up so
>late playing Halo 2 |-0
>
>> caught it but a mechanic at Performance looked at the tire when I got my
>> clipless pedals and said 'it has a shimmy. Looks to me like the bead of the
>> tire was not installed correctly, and is off by a little bit.' (I had
>> mentioned being puzzled I couldn't ride it no-hands, and he said 'no
>> wonder...')
>>
><SNIP>
>>
>>
>> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't like the feeling
>> that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me away, ostensibly so he ould
>> say 'oh you ran over something since I put in the new tire'.
>>
>> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include balancing the wheel, but
>> I could be wrong on that.
>
>not sure about that.
>
>sorry for the misread

>+ravi

Hey, no biggie. I 'm just glad for your quick and supportive reply, Amigo.
;-)

-B

(Uh, in case you missed the 'Fravia' reference, he ran an infamous
"hacker's challenge" back in the middle 90s, and only those that won got to
put the honorary '+' in front of their online handle.)

11-10-2004, 07:16 PM

Badger wrote:
>
> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
like the
> feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
away,
> ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
I put in
> the new tire'.

Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
problem then.
Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
you wanted done.
>
> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
balancing the
> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>
Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
end up as trash on Friday.

11-10-2004, 07:16 PM

Badger wrote:
>
> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
like the
> feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
away,
> ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
I put in
> the new tire'.

Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
problem then.
Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
you wanted done.
>
> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
balancing the
> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>
Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
end up as trash on Friday.

11-10-2004, 07:16 PM

Badger wrote:
>
> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
like the
> feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
away,
> ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
I put in
> the new tire'.

Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
problem then.
Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
you wanted done.
>
> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
balancing the
> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>
Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
end up as trash on Friday.

11-10-2004, 07:16 PM

Badger wrote:
>
> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
like the
> feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
away,
> ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
I put in
> the new tire'.

Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
problem then.
Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
you wanted done.
>
> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
balancing the
> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>
Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
end up as trash on Friday.

11-10-2004, 07:40 PM

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:20 -0600, "Mike Kruger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

>Badger wrote:
>>
>> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
>like the feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
>away, ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
>I put in the new tire'.
>
>Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
>problem then.
>Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
>wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
>you wanted done.

Yeah. My inner voice at the time was saying 'ride bike around in parking
lot...' I didn't listen, b/c I didn't fully understand the vibe of
'something's wrong' that I was picking up. Next time I'm gonna listen.

>>
>> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
>balancing the
>> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>>
>Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
>significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
>installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
>shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

Yeah, but I before I took it in my braking was perfect, no 'grab' caused by
any lack of 'true'. Then the very next time I rode, the brake grabbed and
it felt like I was riding across mini-rail-road tracks, or similar to when
the ABS kicks in on your car. IOW, day 1, Wheel fine, but tire blew. Took
bike to LBS immediately. First ride after new wheel installation - brake
problem.

What bothers me immensely is that the LBS guy -let me leave knowing there
was a problem-. I fear if I had tried to ride one of my usual steep
downhills I would have had a problem braking, and who knows what else. I
think it's almost criminally irresponsible to let an innocent newbie leave
the bike shop knowing there's something wrong with the bike and not
disclosing it. Problem is how do I prove it, or object without causing
massive denial and the mechanic saying 'leave and don't come back' out of
humiliation of being caught doing poor practice. ;-(

>In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
>of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
>a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
>other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
>end up as trash on Friday.

Just to be clear, the difference in the braking was startling between the
time of changing the tire and the next ride. There's no doubt in my mind
something happened either when the tire blew or when he did something
prying the new tire on the wheel. After he did the install, he started
mumbling to himself, and then playing with the brake caliper adjustments.

Now just putting a new tire on the bike, istm would not require brake
caliper adjustment to the degree he was futzing about. This is what made me
think he was hiding something that he did, hoping that simply adjusting the
calipers would 'mask' the problem.

-B
Grrrrr!! ;-)

11-10-2004, 07:40 PM

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:20 -0600, "Mike Kruger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

>Badger wrote:
>>
>> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
>like the feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
>away, ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
>I put in the new tire'.
>
>Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
>problem then.
>Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
>wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
>you wanted done.

Yeah. My inner voice at the time was saying 'ride bike around in parking
lot...' I didn't listen, b/c I didn't fully understand the vibe of
'something's wrong' that I was picking up. Next time I'm gonna listen.

>>
>> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
>balancing the
>> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>>
>Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
>significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
>installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
>shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

Yeah, but I before I took it in my braking was perfect, no 'grab' caused by
any lack of 'true'. Then the very next time I rode, the brake grabbed and
it felt like I was riding across mini-rail-road tracks, or similar to when
the ABS kicks in on your car. IOW, day 1, Wheel fine, but tire blew. Took
bike to LBS immediately. First ride after new wheel installation - brake
problem.

What bothers me immensely is that the LBS guy -let me leave knowing there
was a problem-. I fear if I had tried to ride one of my usual steep
downhills I would have had a problem braking, and who knows what else. I
think it's almost criminally irresponsible to let an innocent newbie leave
the bike shop knowing there's something wrong with the bike and not
disclosing it. Problem is how do I prove it, or object without causing
massive denial and the mechanic saying 'leave and don't come back' out of
humiliation of being caught doing poor practice. ;-(

>In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
>of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
>a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
>other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
>end up as trash on Friday.

Just to be clear, the difference in the braking was startling between the
time of changing the tire and the next ride. There's no doubt in my mind
something happened either when the tire blew or when he did something
prying the new tire on the wheel. After he did the install, he started
mumbling to himself, and then playing with the brake caliper adjustments.

Now just putting a new tire on the bike, istm would not require brake
caliper adjustment to the degree he was futzing about. This is what made me
think he was hiding something that he did, hoping that simply adjusting the
calipers would 'mask' the problem.

-B
Grrrrr!! ;-)

11-10-2004, 07:40 PM

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:20 -0600, "Mike Kruger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

>Badger wrote:
>>
>> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
>like the feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
>away, ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
>I put in the new tire'.
>
>Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
>problem then.
>Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
>wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
>you wanted done.

Yeah. My inner voice at the time was saying 'ride bike around in parking
lot...' I didn't listen, b/c I didn't fully understand the vibe of
'something's wrong' that I was picking up. Next time I'm gonna listen.

>>
>> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
>balancing the
>> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>>
>Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
>significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
>installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
>shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

Yeah, but I before I took it in my braking was perfect, no 'grab' caused by
any lack of 'true'. Then the very next time I rode, the brake grabbed and
it felt like I was riding across mini-rail-road tracks, or similar to when
the ABS kicks in on your car. IOW, day 1, Wheel fine, but tire blew. Took
bike to LBS immediately. First ride after new wheel installation - brake
problem.

What bothers me immensely is that the LBS guy -let me leave knowing there
was a problem-. I fear if I had tried to ride one of my usual steep
downhills I would have had a problem braking, and who knows what else. I
think it's almost criminally irresponsible to let an innocent newbie leave
the bike shop knowing there's something wrong with the bike and not
disclosing it. Problem is how do I prove it, or object without causing
massive denial and the mechanic saying 'leave and don't come back' out of
humiliation of being caught doing poor practice. ;-(

>In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
>of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
>a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
>other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
>end up as trash on Friday.

Just to be clear, the difference in the braking was startling between the
time of changing the tire and the next ride. There's no doubt in my mind
something happened either when the tire blew or when he did something
prying the new tire on the wheel. After he did the install, he started
mumbling to himself, and then playing with the brake caliper adjustments.

Now just putting a new tire on the bike, istm would not require brake
caliper adjustment to the degree he was futzing about. This is what made me
think he was hiding something that he did, hoping that simply adjusting the
calipers would 'mask' the problem.

-B
Grrrrr!! ;-)

11-10-2004, 07:40 PM

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:20 -0600, "Mike Kruger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
wrote:

>Badger wrote:
>>
>> What I figured. Again, I don't mind paying. I just don't
>like the feeling that he -knew- there was a problem, but sent me
>away, ostensibly so he ould say 'oh you ran over something since
>I put in the new tire'.
>
>Sounds like either that, or he didn't want to deal with the
>problem then.
>Either way is poor service. He should have told you the
>wheel was somewhat out of true, and then let you decide what
>you wanted done.

Yeah. My inner voice at the time was saying 'ride bike around in parking
lot...' I didn't listen, b/c I didn't fully understand the vibe of
'something's wrong' that I was picking up. Next time I'm gonna listen.

>>
>> I'd think that putting on a new tire would include
>balancing the
>> wheel, but I could be wrong on that.
>>
>Regardless of how long is reasonable, there clearly is
>significantly more time in new tire + truing than just
>installing a new tire, and time is $. Installing a tire
>shouldn't put the wheel out of true.

Yeah, but I before I took it in my braking was perfect, no 'grab' caused by
any lack of 'true'. Then the very next time I rode, the brake grabbed and
it felt like I was riding across mini-rail-road tracks, or similar to when
the ABS kicks in on your car. IOW, day 1, Wheel fine, but tire blew. Took
bike to LBS immediately. First ride after new wheel installation - brake
problem.

What bothers me immensely is that the LBS guy -let me leave knowing there
was a problem-. I fear if I had tried to ride one of my usual steep
downhills I would have had a problem braking, and who knows what else. I
think it's almost criminally irresponsible to let an innocent newbie leave
the bike shop knowing there's something wrong with the bike and not
disclosing it. Problem is how do I prove it, or object without causing
massive denial and the mechanic saying 'leave and don't come back' out of
humiliation of being caught doing poor practice. ;-(

>In terms of "how long" between wheel truing -- that's sort
>of like asking "how long" between flats. A good mechanic on
>a good wheel on smooth roads can last for years. On the
>other hand, I've gotten a new wheel on Tuesday and seen it
>end up as trash on Friday.

Just to be clear, the difference in the braking was startling between the
time of changing the tire and the next ride. There's no doubt in my mind
something happened either when the tire blew or when he did something
prying the new tire on the wheel. After he did the install, he started
mumbling to himself, and then playing with the brake caliper adjustments.

Now just putting a new tire on the bike, istm would not require brake
caliper adjustment to the degree he was futzing about. This is what made me
think he was hiding something that he did, hoping that simply adjusting the
calipers would 'mask' the problem.

-B
Grrrrr!! ;-)

11-10-2004, 10:36 PM

Badger wrote:
> I took my bike in to the shop where I purchased it yesterday to have
> a new tire and tube installed, and when the mechanic looked at it
> after installation to readjust the brakes (?). However, I immediately
> got the feeling that something was wrong, but that he wasn't telling
> me what.

Sounds to me like you zapped your wheel out of true precisely when you
exploded the old tire and tube, this is a fairly common thing to happen
with blowoffs. I imagine it would happen more easily with lightweight, low
spoke count wheels. I would say the problems you're having are not your
mechanics fault, although he should have pointed it out and offered to
repair it the first time, like you say.