Just a reminder we need Bike Lanes

12-02-2004, 01:54 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> I have a question for you. I know that cyclists should sometimes "take the
> lane" depending on the circumstances. Is there anything wrong with a car
> "taking the gutter" , in essence forcing the bike behind them to remain in
> queue, if it is in the cyclist's best interest? For instance, in a right
> turn lane, where the cyclist might go on green and get flattened by right
> turning cars that didn't know he was there. This is in fairly heavy traffic
> where traffic wouldn't be going any faster than cycling speed anyways.
>
> Or should I just show 'consideration', let them pass and get flattened when
> the light turns green?

Remember that most cyclists who'll mix it up on such roads also spend a
lot of time behind the wheel.

With the speeds in question, I typically have no trouble following just
inside the bubble left behind a car by trailing drivers. That way my
main focus can "safely" be on what the potential idiot just in front of
me is doing.

Generally, let the cyclist worry about getting smacked by a
right-turning car. For me, it's not a problem as I generally take the
spot behind the first car in the queue, and accelerate fast enough that
drivers behind me don't seem to mind. I keep them behind me until we've
all gotten up to speed, then I squeeze over as appropriate. It doesn't
really matter, since we're all tooling along at 20 mph anyway.

If you are in a right turn *only* lane, it *might* be okay to stop a
cyclist from passing on the right. We're supposed to pass on the left in
that case. But how do you know they want to go straight???

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:54 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> I have a question for you. I know that cyclists should sometimes "take the
> lane" depending on the circumstances. Is there anything wrong with a car
> "taking the gutter" , in essence forcing the bike behind them to remain in
> queue, if it is in the cyclist's best interest? For instance, in a right
> turn lane, where the cyclist might go on green and get flattened by right
> turning cars that didn't know he was there. This is in fairly heavy traffic
> where traffic wouldn't be going any faster than cycling speed anyways.
>
> Or should I just show 'consideration', let them pass and get flattened when
> the light turns green?

Remember that most cyclists who'll mix it up on such roads also spend a
lot of time behind the wheel.

With the speeds in question, I typically have no trouble following just
inside the bubble left behind a car by trailing drivers. That way my
main focus can "safely" be on what the potential idiot just in front of
me is doing.

Generally, let the cyclist worry about getting smacked by a
right-turning car. For me, it's not a problem as I generally take the
spot behind the first car in the queue, and accelerate fast enough that
drivers behind me don't seem to mind. I keep them behind me until we've
all gotten up to speed, then I squeeze over as appropriate. It doesn't
really matter, since we're all tooling along at 20 mph anyway.

If you are in a right turn *only* lane, it *might* be okay to stop a
cyclist from passing on the right. We're supposed to pass on the left in
that case. But how do you know they want to go straight???

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:54 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> I have a question for you. I know that cyclists should sometimes "take the
> lane" depending on the circumstances. Is there anything wrong with a car
> "taking the gutter" , in essence forcing the bike behind them to remain in
> queue, if it is in the cyclist's best interest? For instance, in a right
> turn lane, where the cyclist might go on green and get flattened by right
> turning cars that didn't know he was there. This is in fairly heavy traffic
> where traffic wouldn't be going any faster than cycling speed anyways.
>
> Or should I just show 'consideration', let them pass and get flattened when
> the light turns green?

Remember that most cyclists who'll mix it up on such roads also spend a
lot of time behind the wheel.

With the speeds in question, I typically have no trouble following just
inside the bubble left behind a car by trailing drivers. That way my
main focus can "safely" be on what the potential idiot just in front of
me is doing.

Generally, let the cyclist worry about getting smacked by a
right-turning car. For me, it's not a problem as I generally take the
spot behind the first car in the queue, and accelerate fast enough that
drivers behind me don't seem to mind. I keep them behind me until we've
all gotten up to speed, then I squeeze over as appropriate. It doesn't
really matter, since we're all tooling along at 20 mph anyway.

If you are in a right turn *only* lane, it *might* be okay to stop a
cyclist from passing on the right. We're supposed to pass on the left in
that case. But how do you know they want to go straight???

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:54 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> I have a question for you. I know that cyclists should sometimes "take the
> lane" depending on the circumstances. Is there anything wrong with a car
> "taking the gutter" , in essence forcing the bike behind them to remain in
> queue, if it is in the cyclist's best interest? For instance, in a right
> turn lane, where the cyclist might go on green and get flattened by right
> turning cars that didn't know he was there. This is in fairly heavy traffic
> where traffic wouldn't be going any faster than cycling speed anyways.
>
> Or should I just show 'consideration', let them pass and get flattened when
> the light turns green?

Remember that most cyclists who'll mix it up on such roads also spend a
lot of time behind the wheel.

With the speeds in question, I typically have no trouble following just
inside the bubble left behind a car by trailing drivers. That way my
main focus can "safely" be on what the potential idiot just in front of
me is doing.

Generally, let the cyclist worry about getting smacked by a
right-turning car. For me, it's not a problem as I generally take the
spot behind the first car in the queue, and accelerate fast enough that
drivers behind me don't seem to mind. I keep them behind me until we've
all gotten up to speed, then I squeeze over as appropriate. It doesn't
really matter, since we're all tooling along at 20 mph anyway.

If you are in a right turn *only* lane, it *might* be okay to stop a
cyclist from passing on the right. We're supposed to pass on the left in
that case. But how do you know they want to go straight???

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:57 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> "David Kerber" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>>Yes, there is something wrong with that: I don't want a driver deciding
>>what is in *my* best interest. If I don't trust the cars not to turn
>>right into me, I don't go up beside them, but rather hold back a couple
>>(or more) vehicle lengths from the intersection. If possible, I move
>>into the middle of the lane while waiting for the light to turn.
>
>
> But not all cyclists are smart and will try to pass on the right in a right
> turn only lane, and be surprised when they get hooked. And I was thinking as
> one of the first couple vehicles lined up at the light, the point where you
> would either hold back or switch lanes, so really it wouldn't affect you.

Don't worry yourself about the dumb ones. Think "tough love."

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:57 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> "David Kerber" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>>Yes, there is something wrong with that: I don't want a driver deciding
>>what is in *my* best interest. If I don't trust the cars not to turn
>>right into me, I don't go up beside them, but rather hold back a couple
>>(or more) vehicle lengths from the intersection. If possible, I move
>>into the middle of the lane while waiting for the light to turn.
>
>
> But not all cyclists are smart and will try to pass on the right in a right
> turn only lane, and be surprised when they get hooked. And I was thinking as
> one of the first couple vehicles lined up at the light, the point where you
> would either hold back or switch lanes, so really it wouldn't affect you.

Don't worry yourself about the dumb ones. Think "tough love."

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:57 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> "David Kerber" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>>Yes, there is something wrong with that: I don't want a driver deciding
>>what is in *my* best interest. If I don't trust the cars not to turn
>>right into me, I don't go up beside them, but rather hold back a couple
>>(or more) vehicle lengths from the intersection. If possible, I move
>>into the middle of the lane while waiting for the light to turn.
>
>
> But not all cyclists are smart and will try to pass on the right in a right
> turn only lane, and be surprised when they get hooked. And I was thinking as
> one of the first couple vehicles lined up at the light, the point where you
> would either hold back or switch lanes, so really it wouldn't affect you.

Don't worry yourself about the dumb ones. Think "tough love."

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 01:57 AM

Bill 2 wrote:
> "David Kerber" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>>Yes, there is something wrong with that: I don't want a driver deciding
>>what is in *my* best interest. If I don't trust the cars not to turn
>>right into me, I don't go up beside them, but rather hold back a couple
>>(or more) vehicle lengths from the intersection. If possible, I move
>>into the middle of the lane while waiting for the light to turn.
>
>
> But not all cyclists are smart and will try to pass on the right in a right
> turn only lane, and be surprised when they get hooked. And I was thinking as
> one of the first couple vehicles lined up at the light, the point where you
> would either hold back or switch lanes, so really it wouldn't affect you.

Don't worry yourself about the dumb ones. Think "tough love."

--
--
Lynn Wallace [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

12-02-2004, 08:04 AM

This why I put my bicycles away...

A while back, my daughter and I were riding bicycle down the sidewalk
(riding with traffic is out of the question, since this is a major
street and my daughet is small) and, as we neared the intersection, I
noticed a car competing with us for the flashing walk signal. Well,
luckily, the lady stopped. However, that triggered her anger and she
got out the car and yelled at me some unprintable insults before
roaring away in her powerful Firebird. And I wonder, am I on the
wrong? I don't think so. I ride the bicycle for some good reasons, one
of them being the environment. Why should the polluter have all the
power? Why should we be pushed to the sidewalk to begin with?

Anyway, here's what I propose:

Why not take the lane (ride in the center) until they design BICYCLE
LANES ALONG ALL MAJOR STREETS? We all know that we have no place now,
since riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is more dangerous than on an
unprotected street, and riding on the edge makes it likely that a car
hits us. We could wear shirts made to the purpose and make it a
national (or international) campaign. I'm pretty sure that when a few
people get knock down by cars, or traffic is backed up, someone will
take notice. There's an organization already doing something similar,
Critical Mass, which I'm sure can lend us a hand, or simply we join
them.

Time to pull my bicycles out...

Critical Mass
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

***

Believe it or not many so-called bike riders in America argue AGAINST
bike lanes, and when I published the above letter I was received with
hostility from the bicycle elite... Who sponsors them remains to be
seen, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's General Motors...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

12-02-2004, 09:51 AM

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 09:04:48 -0800, DonQuijote1954 wrote:

> There's an organization already doing something similar,
> Critical Mass, which I'm sure can lend us a hand

lend you a hand making bad press.

Critical Mass is ruined in most of its incarnations by a select few morons
and serves no purpose than reinforcing the misconceptions that all
cyclists are radical lunatics. I've ridden CM a dozen or so times, and met
some wonderful folks, but each ride was eventually ruined by some self
righteous *******s.

I do my personal "Critical Mass" every day, by riding IN traffic politely
and following the rules to a tee, thus showing this city that there's at
least one sane rider out there. I smile and wave when appropriate.

Carrots work better than sticks.

btw, I completely understand your frustration, but there's no reason to
make things worse.