Yet another traffic fatality

10-04-2003, 06:56 AM

An area high school girl was killed around sunset Thursday. Her dad is in
critical condition. Neither had lights, according to the report. Two
vehicles were involved.

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10-05-2003, 05:37 PM

Horace wrote:
> An area high school girl was killed around sunset Thursday. Her dad is in
> critical condition. Neither had lights, according to the report. Two
> vehicles were involved.
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Can you get the Raliegh Clear Channel radio station from Fayetteville?
--Karen M.

10-05-2003, 06:36 PM

"Karen M." <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:4bfcf85b.0310051737.50ccdbc6@posting.google.c om...
> Horace wrote:
>
> Can you get the Raliegh Clear Channel radio station from Fayetteville?
> --Karen M.

Not familiar with it. What's the frequency?

Horace

10-06-2003, 07:34 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Karen M.) wrote in message news:<4bfcf85b.0310051737.50ccdbc6@posting.google. com>...
> Horace wrote:
> > An area high school girl was killed around sunset Thursday. Her dad is in
> > critical condition. Neither had lights, according to the report. Two
> > vehicles were involved.
> >
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> Can you get the Raliegh Clear Channel radio station from Fayetteville?
> --Karen M.

I do not believe that Clear Channel's broadcasts could have anything
to do with this incident. I believe the open questions about this
crash, which happened in darkness, are as follows:

1. Was the cyclist using a rear reflector? That is the minimum legal
requirement under NC law. Dark clothing is not unlawful, and use of a
headlamp is irrelevant to an overtaking collision.

2. If there was a rear reflector, was it bright enough to perform its
function reliably for the distances requried for a driver to take
action, or was its design fatally flawed by being too dim, too small,
or too easily misaligned?

3. Was the overtaking motorist traveling too fast for the sight
distance conditions at that particular curve, regardless of the posted
limit?

The answers to these questions could shift the blame among the
motorist, the cyclist, the bicycle manufacturer, the CPSC, etc.

-Steve Goodridge
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10-06-2003, 08:08 AM

Horace wrote:
> Not familiar with it. What's the frequency?

"G105." See this link for particulars:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

--Karen M.
leaping to conclusions

10-06-2003, 09:51 AM

"Steven Goodridge" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:99edd02a.0310060734.7fa635a6@posting.google.c om...
and use of a
> headlamp is irrelevant to an overtaking collision.

Not if your lights are bright enough to illuminate the surroundings and
create a "pool" of light the way car headlights do. Using a dual 12w
spot/12w flood system, I've been told my headlights contribute as much to my
night visibility from behind as do my three rear LED blinkies and
rreflective triangle.

RichC

10-06-2003, 01:08 PM

"Horace" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<rcBfb.28182$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].atl.earth link.net>...
> An area high school girl was killed around sunset Thursday. Her dad is in
> critical condition. Neither had lights, according to the report. Two
> vehicles were involved.
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Strangely, the article said neither person was wearing a reflective
vest, and neither bike had lights. But they were struck by a car
rounding a curve and hitting them from behind. Bicycle headlights,
while very necessary to prevent accidents involving cars from the
front or side, would have been no help in preventing this.

Why do they mention reflective vests? Are these considered a standard
safety item in the area? I never see people wearing them in Raleigh.
They add only a little visibility over a good reflector.

Assuming the bikes had their CPSC rear reflectors on, and the
reflectors were properly angled, they should have been reasonably
visible from the rear. I suspect the driver was over-driving her
headlights and that is why they weren't seen. But not enough details
given to really conclude this.

To tie this into another rear lighting discussion going on in
rec.bicycles.misc, Forester objected to the CPSC rear reflectors
because they are non-optimal and based on a faulty 360 degree
reflector assumption. They waste a lot of surface area on side
reflection. Forester, and I certainly agree, thinks that a reflector
devoted to rear reflection is much better, having about 3x the
brightness of the CPSC reflector. And he thinks amber is better as
that returns more light than a red reflector.

However, I've done tests with the standard CPSC rear reflector. As
long as the weather is OK ( no rain or fog), they should make one
visible. Easily visible in the headlights from a block away. The 3
inch amber reflector Forester recommends is a LOT brighter, brighter
than any of the LED taillights people normally use, and should make
you visible even in adverse conditions (I've tested all of these in
heavy fog). Mounting the reflector low - say on your fender if you
have one, makes the reflection MUCH brighter, as it catches the
brighter part of the car beam. I doubt you can do any better than
this.

So a reflector is sufficient for most conditions, especially a 3 inch
amber. More might be nice, but certainly isn't always necessary and
probably would not have made a difference in the case referred to in
the article.

-Pete

10-06-2003, 05:13 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Steven Goodridge) wrote;

> The answers to these questions could shift the blame among the
> motorist, the cyclist, the bicycle manufacturer, the CPSC, etc.

Can't shift blame away from the motorist-- subtract the car and nobody
gets killed, period.

Chalo Colina

10-06-2003, 05:16 PM

"Rich Clark" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

> Using a dual 12w
> spot/12w flood system, I've been told my headlights contribute as much to my
> night visibility from behind as do my three rear LED blinkies and
> rreflective triangle.

Do you get by with just a belt and suspenders, or do you glue your pants on as well?

Chalo Colina

10-06-2003, 07:58 PM

"Chalo" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] m...
> "Rich Clark" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> > Using a dual 12w
> > spot/12w flood system, I've been told my headlights contribute as much
to my
> > night visibility from behind as do my three rear LED blinkies and
> > rreflective triangle.
>
> Do you get by with just a belt and suspenders, or do you glue your pants
on as well?

I only glue my pants on when visiting certain downtown neighborhoods alone
after dark.

However, when you're in the lane every night on a road with no shoulder and
the average car is going over 50mph, you *really* want drivers to see you
from a long way away.

RichC