wheels are shot

01-31-2005, 05:40 PM

my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but getting
a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love to
have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i have
never bought wheels separate from bike...
-alanS

01-31-2005, 05:48 PM

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:40:15 -0800, wrote:

> my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but getting
> a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
> rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love to
> have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i have
> never bought wheels separate from bike...

Rims can easily become damaged from rough use, but usually that is
manifested in dents. If they are true, they are not "oval", and if they
are oval they are not true. These wheels were originally machine built,
and so were not properly tensioned or stress-relieved. De-tension them,
and build up the tension to proper levels, and stress-relieve. Use either
Jobst Brandt's book or Sheldon Brown's Website to figure out how to do
this. The wheels will last far longer than 6500 miles.

If the rims are indeed shot (dented, not nearly round when de-tensioned),
then replace the rims with the same brand/model. Don't replace the spokes
if you can avoid it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

01-31-2005, 05:48 PM

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:40:15 -0800, wrote:

> my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but getting
> a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
> rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love to
> have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i have
> never bought wheels separate from bike...

Rims can easily become damaged from rough use, but usually that is
manifested in dents. If they are true, they are not "oval", and if they
are oval they are not true. These wheels were originally machine built,
and so were not properly tensioned or stress-relieved. De-tension them,
and build up the tension to proper levels, and stress-relieve. Use either
Jobst Brandt's book or Sheldon Brown's Website to figure out how to do
this. The wheels will last far longer than 6500 miles.

If the rims are indeed shot (dented, not nearly round when de-tensioned),
then replace the rims with the same brand/model. Don't replace the spokes
if you can avoid it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

01-31-2005, 07:14 PM

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh-nospam.edu> wrote in message
news

an.2005.02.01.02.47.59.15789@lehigh-nospam.edu...
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:40:15 -0800, wrote:
>
> > my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but
getting
> > a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
> > rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love
to
> > have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i
have
> > never bought wheels separate from bike...
>
> Rims can easily become damaged from rough use, but usually that is
> manifested in dents. If they are true, they are not "oval", and if they
> are oval they are not true. These wheels were originally machine built,
> and so were not properly tensioned or stress-relieved. De-tension them,
> and build up the tension to proper levels, and stress-relieve. Use either
> Jobst Brandt's book or Sheldon Brown's Website to figure out how to do
> this. The wheels will last far longer than 6500 miles.
>
> If the rims are indeed shot (dented, not nearly round when de-tensioned),
> then replace the rims with the same brand/model. Don't replace the spokes
> if you can avoid it.
>

thanks, i need to get that book. well i guess they aren't true then. they
are fine side-to-side but up and down there's a dent in the rear. dont
replace the spokes? i have already broken and replaced five of them, that's
why i want better wheels. i check the tension frequently and i mean it about
the roads. the bike lane i travel every day is worse than some single track
dirt trails i know...i would change the route but the bike lane is the
safest.
-alanS

01-31-2005, 07:14 PM

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh-nospam.edu> wrote in message
news

an.2005.02.01.02.47.59.15789@lehigh-nospam.edu...
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:40:15 -0800, wrote:
>
> > my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but
getting
> > a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
> > rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love
to
> > have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i
have
> > never bought wheels separate from bike...
>
> Rims can easily become damaged from rough use, but usually that is
> manifested in dents. If they are true, they are not "oval", and if they
> are oval they are not true. These wheels were originally machine built,
> and so were not properly tensioned or stress-relieved. De-tension them,
> and build up the tension to proper levels, and stress-relieve. Use either
> Jobst Brandt's book or Sheldon Brown's Website to figure out how to do
> this. The wheels will last far longer than 6500 miles.
>
> If the rims are indeed shot (dented, not nearly round when de-tensioned),
> then replace the rims with the same brand/model. Don't replace the spokes
> if you can avoid it.
>

thanks, i need to get that book. well i guess they aren't true then. they
are fine side-to-side but up and down there's a dent in the rear. dont
replace the spokes? i have already broken and replaced five of them, that's
why i want better wheels. i check the tension frequently and i mean it about
the roads. the bike lane i travel every day is worse than some single track
dirt trails i know...i would change the route but the bike lane is the
safest.
-alanS

01-31-2005, 08:25 PM

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:14:33 -0800, wrote:

>
> thanks, i need to get that book. well i guess they aren't true then. they
> are fine side-to-side but up and down there's a dent in the rear.

That could be a problem.

>*dont
> replace the spokes? i have already broken and replaced five of them, that's
> why i want better wheels.

That is an indication of poorly-built wheels, not poor materials
necessarily. You can have the best spokes and rim, but with a machine
build you will still break spokes.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

01-31-2005, 08:25 PM

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:14:33 -0800, wrote:

>
> thanks, i need to get that book. well i guess they aren't true then. they
> are fine side-to-side but up and down there's a dent in the rear.

That could be a problem.

>*dont
> replace the spokes? i have already broken and replaced five of them, that's
> why i want better wheels.

That is an indication of poorly-built wheels, not poor materials
necessarily. You can have the best spokes and rim, but with a machine
build you will still break spokes.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

01-31-2005, 08:28 PM

In article <ctmq8r$jvi$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
"greggery peccary" <.@.> writes:

> my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but getting
> a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
> rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love to
> have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i have
> never bought wheels separate from bike...

Earlier today for some reason, I was looking at this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Go to page 2 and scroll down to "wheels For Serious Loaded Touring
On/off Road," posted by Tim Schneider.

It says:

<quote (with a little line editing)>
hubs: shimano deore xt. 36 hole ft/rear 8/9 speed.
spokes: dt/wheelsmith 14ga 3 cross to 4 cross for strong wheels
rims: sunrims [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
700c: cr18 36 hole
26": cr18 36 hole
or
700c: rhyno lite 36 hole
26": rhyno lite 36 hole
<EOQ>

Sounds good to me. There's a bunch of other cute tips &
tricks explained at that site, too; most interesting.

David L. Johnson gave you a bunch of really good info.
I'll just add that you should check your rims for
wear, which will be indicated by a noticable and feelable
"lip" around the edge, just above where the brake pads
contact. If there is such a lip, it may well be time to
replace your rims.

IME, flat spots in rims are more difficult to true out
than side-to-side squiggleniess. I notice laser levels
are becoming quite inexpensively available. Maybe one
of those would be just the ticket for truing out flat
spots in rims?

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

01-31-2005, 08:28 PM

In article <ctmq8r$jvi$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
"greggery peccary" <.@.> writes:

> my 2003 novara now has about 6500 miles and the wheels are true but getting
> a bit oval from rough asphalt and unplanned curb hopping. my commute is
> rough, the unstable soil here makes the streets very rough. i would love to
> have some 700's that are tough for these conditions. any thoughts? i have
> never bought wheels separate from bike...

Earlier today for some reason, I was looking at this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Go to page 2 and scroll down to "wheels For Serious Loaded Touring
On/off Road," posted by Tim Schneider.

It says:

<quote (with a little line editing)>
hubs: shimano deore xt. 36 hole ft/rear 8/9 speed.
spokes: dt/wheelsmith 14ga 3 cross to 4 cross for strong wheels
rims: sunrims [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
700c: cr18 36 hole
26": cr18 36 hole
or
700c: rhyno lite 36 hole
26": rhyno lite 36 hole
<EOQ>

Sounds good to me. There's a bunch of other cute tips &
tricks explained at that site, too; most interesting.

David L. Johnson gave you a bunch of really good info.
I'll just add that you should check your rims for
wear, which will be indicated by a noticable and feelable
"lip" around the edge, just above where the brake pads
contact. If there is such a lip, it may well be time to
replace your rims.

IME, flat spots in rims are more difficult to true out
than side-to-side squiggleniess. I notice laser levels
are becoming quite inexpensively available. Maybe one
of those would be just the ticket for truing out flat
spots in rims?

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

01-31-2005, 08:59 PM

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:14:33 -0800, wrote:

> that's
> why i want better wheels

The wheels are most likely fine, but poorly built by machine. As the
previous poster mentioned, destressing the spokes (basically giving them a
little "pre-bend" where they overlap with a screwdriver or such) and
proper tensioning should give you a set of wheels that'll last a very long
time. You certainly could have a bent rim, but I agree with the other
poster, most likely it's just a truing issue.

If you have a good LBS, let them do it for 15-20 per wheel, and you'll be
set for a long long time. Or as the other poster said, learn to do it
yourself.

I'm a cheapskate and often buy wheels on sale at Nashbar for a hundred
bucks or so. The components are fine, but the wheel's build is a joke.
When I've got the time, in the first couple weeks of the wheels use
lifespan, I'll destress and retrue the wheels, often while still mounted
in the bike flipped upside down since I'm a lazy sob. I've been doing this
since high school (class of 89) and end up having to true such a tweaked
wheel on average, perhaps every other year. I ride in the city over lots
of construction on 700c's, so my bikes aren't babied.

Yeah, there are crap rims and hubs--but pretty much anybody on this group
is going to tell you the same thing: the most important factor in a
wheel's integrity is how and who built it.