Finished my project bike! - Page 4

02-28-2005, 07:02 AM

: >
: >The best part of construction is arguing over payment for change orders
: >and changed conditions.

:
: That was my speciality - from foundation to finish.
:
: Lots of jobs were done by the "just in time" method so there were
: always new things cropping up. It kept my interest peaking for years.
:
: I have a many horror stories of "tradesmen's" gross ineptitude.
: --
: zk

I'll bet you do--because I have a few myself just from the position of being
the "home owner". For example, when the plumbers removed that blue plastic
protective cover from the bathroom sink, they just stuffed it down the
toilet! I didn't find that out for about a week or so when I had to have a
guy come out to fix the drainage and he fished that out of the drain....

Pat in TX

02-28-2005, 07:37 AM

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
> > Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:38:41 -0600, <387acdF5mf957U1@individual.net>,
> > "Pat" <Pat@newstime.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Just doing something from start to finish and seeing the results is
> >>rewarding. Now, I know why so many people like working in
construction....
> >
> >
> > It has its moments but you usually end up having worked yourself
out
> > of a job. The daily progress in the early stages is satisfying but
> > when you get down to the details it can start to drag.
>
> Punch list!
>
> The best part of construction is arguing over payment for change
orders
> and changed conditions.

>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Earth

Someone is speaking my language. The never ending punch list and
"Change Orders" the nectar of construction. I may not know anything
about bicycles yet, but I know the field of commercial construction.

Anyone who finds construction rewarding never worked with architects,
engineers, town officials and subcontractors who won't follow the
project schedule.

And lets not even discuss liquidated damages if you do not finish on
schedule. When the consent to final payment and all release of liens
are signed and the state is happy the nightmare is over....the picture
of the building is finally your reward. The reward meaning you can get
the hell off that job site and move on.

The only rewarding construction is building a shed in the back yard for
yourself. Or building anything on your own. And even then you may have
to deal with zoning. Maybe building a birdhouse would be rewarding. A
10 million dollar building is another story. It is one cut throat back
stabbing business and you have to be tough as nails to be in it to win
it.
All Good Things,
Maggie.

02-28-2005, 07:37 AM

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
> > Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:38:41 -0600, <387acdF5mf957U1@individual.net>,
> > "Pat" <Pat@newstime.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Just doing something from start to finish and seeing the results is
> >>rewarding. Now, I know why so many people like working in
construction....
> >
> >
> > It has its moments but you usually end up having worked yourself
out
> > of a job. The daily progress in the early stages is satisfying but
> > when you get down to the details it can start to drag.
>
> Punch list!
>
> The best part of construction is arguing over payment for change
orders
> and changed conditions.

>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Earth

Someone is speaking my language. The never ending punch list and
"Change Orders" the nectar of construction. I may not know anything
about bicycles yet, but I know the field of commercial construction.

Anyone who finds construction rewarding never worked with architects,
engineers, town officials and subcontractors who won't follow the
project schedule.

And lets not even discuss liquidated damages if you do not finish on
schedule. When the consent to final payment and all release of liens
are signed and the state is happy the nightmare is over....the picture
of the building is finally your reward. The reward meaning you can get
the hell off that job site and move on.

The only rewarding construction is building a shed in the back yard for
yourself. Or building anything on your own. And even then you may have
to deal with zoning. Maybe building a birdhouse would be rewarding. A
10 million dollar building is another story. It is one cut throat back
stabbing business and you have to be tough as nails to be in it to win
it.
All Good Things,
Maggie.

02-28-2005, 07:49 AM

Zoot Katz wrote:
> I have a many horror stories of "tradesmen's" gross ineptitude.
> --
> zk

How about the gross ineptitude of the architects who design the
building without being able to hammer in a nail. The war between
contractor and architect is a delight to watch. It's like a dance with
swords. And someone will end up cut to pieces.
All good things,
Maggie

02-28-2005, 07:49 AM

Zoot Katz wrote:
> I have a many horror stories of "tradesmen's" gross ineptitude.
> --
> zk

How about the gross ineptitude of the architects who design the
building without being able to hammer in a nail. The war between
contractor and architect is a delight to watch. It's like a dance with
swords. And someone will end up cut to pieces.
All good things,
Maggie

02-28-2005, 02:20 PM

28 Feb 2005 08:49:34 -0800,
<1109609374.353697.67230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>,
"Maggie" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
>Zoot Katz wrote:
>> I have a many horror stories of "tradesmen's" gross ineptitude.
>
>How about the gross ineptitude of the architects who design the
>building without being able to hammer in a nail. The war between
>contractor and architect is a delight to watch. It's like a dance with
>swords. And someone will end up cut to pieces.

Young architects working on their first or second commission are
problems. They know squat about working in three dimensions.
Everything was flat on their drawing boards. Maybe they're better now
with 3-D modelling software but I've had to show them with cardboard
mock-ups how their drawings wouldn't fit the real world.

Worse are interior designers and interior decorators when they start
arguing. The owner ends up asking _me_ what they should do. I just
recommend the solution that makes _my_ job easier.

Doing major renovations with architects, owners, sub-contractors,
designers, decorators, landscape architects etc. I always suggest they
retain a psychologist in the beginning rather than hiring a lawyer
after the fact.
--
zk

02-28-2005, 02:20 PM

28 Feb 2005 08:49:34 -0800,
<1109609374.353697.67230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>,
"Maggie" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
>Zoot Katz wrote:
>> I have a many horror stories of "tradesmen's" gross ineptitude.
>
>How about the gross ineptitude of the architects who design the
>building without being able to hammer in a nail. The war between
>contractor and architect is a delight to watch. It's like a dance with
>swords. And someone will end up cut to pieces.

Young architects working on their first or second commission are
problems. They know squat about working in three dimensions.
Everything was flat on their drawing boards. Maybe they're better now
with 3-D modelling software but I've had to show them with cardboard
mock-ups how their drawings wouldn't fit the real world.

Worse are interior designers and interior decorators when they start
arguing. The owner ends up asking _me_ what they should do. I just
recommend the solution that makes _my_ job easier.

Doing major renovations with architects, owners, sub-contractors,
designers, decorators, landscape architects etc. I always suggest they
retain a psychologist in the beginning rather than hiring a lawyer
after the fact.
--
zk

02-28-2005, 02:20 PM

28 Feb 2005 08:37:21 -0800,
<1109608641.196441.181480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>,
"Maggie" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote, in part:

>And lets not even discuss liquidated damages if you do not finish on
>schedule. When the consent to final payment and all release of liens
>are signed and the state is happy the nightmare is over....the picture
>of the building is finally your reward. The reward meaning you can get
>the hell off that job site and move on.

I always figured you're not done until the pile of paper equals the
height of the building.

Construction Definitions excerpted from the Sudbury Home Builders
Association Newsletter which appeared in the Greater Vancouver
Division of the Canadian Home Builders Association Newsletter and is
now appearing here without anybody's permission.

Contractor:
- A gambler who never gets to shuffle, cut or deal.

Bid Opening:
- A poker game in which the losing hand wins.

Bid:
- A wild guess carried out to two decimal places.

Successful Low Bidder:
-A contractor who is wondering what he left out.

Home Office Estimate:
-The cost of construction in heaven.

Project Manager:
-The conductor of an orchestra in which every musician is playing a
different song.

Construction Claim:
-The contractor's guess at the amount of money needed to transform a
net loss into a gross profit.

Critical Path Method:
-A management technique for losing your shirt under perfect control.

Strike:
-An effort to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.

Delayed Payment:
-A tourniquet applied to the pockets.

Completion Date:
-A point at which liquidated damages begin.

Liquidated Damages:
-A penalty for failing to achieve the impossible.

Auditors:
-People who go in after the battle is lost and bayonet the wounded.

Lawyers:
-People who go in after the auditors and strip the bodies.
--
zk

02-28-2005, 02:20 PM

28 Feb 2005 08:37:21 -0800,
<1109608641.196441.181480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>,
"Maggie" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote, in part:

>And lets not even discuss liquidated damages if you do not finish on
>schedule. When the consent to final payment and all release of liens
>are signed and the state is happy the nightmare is over....the picture
>of the building is finally your reward. The reward meaning you can get
>the hell off that job site and move on.

I always figured you're not done until the pile of paper equals the
height of the building.

Construction Definitions excerpted from the Sudbury Home Builders
Association Newsletter which appeared in the Greater Vancouver
Division of the Canadian Home Builders Association Newsletter and is
now appearing here without anybody's permission.

Contractor:
- A gambler who never gets to shuffle, cut or deal.

Bid Opening:
- A poker game in which the losing hand wins.

Bid:
- A wild guess carried out to two decimal places.

Successful Low Bidder:
-A contractor who is wondering what he left out.

Home Office Estimate:
-The cost of construction in heaven.

Project Manager:
-The conductor of an orchestra in which every musician is playing a
different song.

Construction Claim:
-The contractor's guess at the amount of money needed to transform a
net loss into a gross profit.

Critical Path Method:
-A management technique for losing your shirt under perfect control.

Strike:
-An effort to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.

Delayed Payment:
-A tourniquet applied to the pockets.

Completion Date:
-A point at which liquidated damages begin.

Liquidated Damages:
-A penalty for failing to achieve the impossible.

Auditors:
-People who go in after the battle is lost and bayonet the wounded.

Lawyers:
-People who go in after the auditors and strip the bodies.
--
zk

03-01-2005, 01:52 AM

Zoot Katz wrote:
> Contractor:
> - A gambler who never gets to shuffle, cut or deal.
>
> Bid Opening:
> - A poker game in which the losing hand wins.
>
> Bid:
> - A wild guess carried out to two decimal places.
>
> Successful Low Bidder:
> -A contractor who is wondering what he left out.
>
> Home Office Estimate:
> -The cost of construction in heaven.
>
> Project Manager:
> -The conductor of an orchestra in which every musician is playing a
> different song.
>
> Construction Claim:
> -The contractor's guess at the amount of money needed to transform a
> net loss into a gross profit.
>
> Critical Path Method:
> -A management technique for losing your shirt under perfect control.
>
> Strike:
> -An effort to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.
>
> Delayed Payment:
> -A tourniquet applied to the pockets.
>
> Completion Date:
> -A point at which liquidated damages begin.
>
> Liquidated Damages:
> -A penalty for failing to achieve the impossible.
>
> Auditors:
> -People who go in after the battle is lost and bayonet the wounded.
>
> Lawyers:
> -People who go in after the auditors and strip the bodies.
> --
> zk

I have that hanging on the wall of my office. It's all so true. I
think the definition of Liquidated Damages is the best. Not to offend
architects, but I always delight when they turn to the contractor for
advice because what they drew on paper is impossible to build. Their
ego, which has been a major problem throughout the job, finally falls a
notch or two. Now I am working with architects the same age as my kids
who are out of college and trying to prove themselves in architectual
firms. What a nightmare. Working with an architect just out of
college. I've come to believe education begins they day you leave
college and step out into the real world.
All Good Things,
Maggie.