you have to be kidding - Page 10

03-03-2005, 10:53 AM

RonSonic wrote:

>
> WHOA!
>
> We've got a bike with 27,000 miles on it and we don't know a damn
thing about
> its maintenance history. Do you really think that any bike with that
kind of
> mileage is going to get fixed in twenty freeking minutes? Especially
since the
> owner doesn't seem to have any perspective on replacing cogs or
chains.
>
> One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
recommend
> for any bike over two years old at $192.

WHOA, yourself! That is a total ripoff. $192 for what? What's the point
in repacking bearings that don't need it? What does "2 years" mean? A
fixed price "tune-up" is a sure sign of a scam. More than likely most
bikes are going to get much more work than they need -- or at least
charged for it...

The truth is that some components are consumables, and that LBS parts
prices are about 3X what the equivalent is when bundled in a new bike.
Put in labor, and the "throw away threshold" gets closer to periodic
maintenance costs. At the same time, components are generally of a
higher quality and longer lasting. I can't think of how I could spend
$200 on a 2 year old bike, even a heavily ridden one.

Stuff should be replaced as it wears out, bearings only need repack if
contaminated. LBS should fix what's broken and just charge for that.

03-03-2005, 11:08 AM

Mary wrote:

>
> I spoke with the manager today. He said the guy I spoke with didn't
know
> what he was talking about and the total bill will be $160 or there
abouts.
> He had a second machanic (the one I really trust) go over the bike
and they
> found that the chain, chainring and cassette needed to be replaced.
> Bearings fine etc. They have to order the cassette but otherwise no
> problem.

$160 is still a really healthy price (for the LBS). For calibration
sake, I'd replace that stuff with mail-order components for about $50
and less than an hour's work. My point isn't that everyone should do
that, or that bike shops are overpriced, but routine maintenance should
be reasonably priced relative to the bike. The average bike/customer
doesn't need high-zoot parts or craftsman-artisan wrenching to swap out
chain/cassette/rings. $160 is the high side of reasonable, $300 was
nuts.

03-03-2005, 11:08 AM

Mary wrote:

>
> I spoke with the manager today. He said the guy I spoke with didn't
know
> what he was talking about and the total bill will be $160 or there
abouts.
> He had a second machanic (the one I really trust) go over the bike
and they
> found that the chain, chainring and cassette needed to be replaced.
> Bearings fine etc. They have to order the cassette but otherwise no
> problem.

$160 is still a really healthy price (for the LBS). For calibration
sake, I'd replace that stuff with mail-order components for about $50
and less than an hour's work. My point isn't that everyone should do
that, or that bike shops are overpriced, but routine maintenance should
be reasonably priced relative to the bike. The average bike/customer
doesn't need high-zoot parts or craftsman-artisan wrenching to swap out
chain/cassette/rings. $160 is the high side of reasonable, $300 was
nuts.

03-03-2005, 05:04 PM

3 Mar 2005 05:13:53 -0800,
<1109855633.359598.39660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>, "Velo Psycho"
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
>>
>> David Bohm of Bohemian Bikes builds machines to dream about.
>> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>>
>> Be sure to check out this one:
>> http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/imag...headtube_1.jpg
>>
>
>I've seen his bikes one time -- at El Tour de Tucson a few years back.
>Absolutely jaw-dropping gorgeous work. I can't attest to how they
>ride, but the bike porn value of the Bohemian bikes is off the charts.

Chalo, who has had numerous other bikes collapse under him, hasn't
broken his Bohemian. I think that attests to the design detail and
quality built into them.

Chalo's custom Bohemian:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
--
zk

03-03-2005, 05:04 PM

3 Mar 2005 05:13:53 -0800,
<1109855633.359598.39660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>, "Velo Psycho"
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
>>
>> David Bohm of Bohemian Bikes builds machines to dream about.
>> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>>
>> Be sure to check out this one:
>> http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/imag...headtube_1.jpg
>>
>
>I've seen his bikes one time -- at El Tour de Tucson a few years back.
>Absolutely jaw-dropping gorgeous work. I can't attest to how they
>ride, but the bike porn value of the Bohemian bikes is off the charts.

Chalo, who has had numerous other bikes collapse under him, hasn't
broken his Bohemian. I think that attests to the design detail and
quality built into them.

Chalo's custom Bohemian:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
--
zk

03-03-2005, 08:00 PM

I have $300 repair bills regularly, and am satisfied with them. My TREK
7500 has over 30,000 miles on it, with year round riding, including WI cold,
rain, snow, slush, salt, sand and all those good things. I don't maintain
it diligently, and am not interested in learning how to fix it beyond
changing flat tires, and via kevlar linings and thorn resistant tubes, do
that as rarely as possible. I am blessed with enough of an income to handle
the bills, and find it more convenient to do it that way. Same with my
current TREK 520, which has about 20000 miles; the last one was totaled in
an accident in 2003. I have a third bike for bad winter days only. It is a
single speed that isn't rendered inoperable by ice buildups. A couple of
times I've found it less expensive to just buy a new one rather than to fix
it, as it really takes abuse.

"Mary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:4224ea05$0$165$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].. .
> six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put about
> 4500 miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to have
> the chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call from the
> mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that total cost of
> replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300. He
> also said that many of the parts on the bike have become obsolete and that
> in 6 months it will be hard to find parts for the bike. He recommended I
> come in and look at a new bike in the 600 to 700 $$ range.
> I thought this was the last bike I would have to buy. Didn't bikes use to
> last like forever? Your opinion...should I fix the bike I have now for
> 300$ and buy new when I come to that bridge or purchase new now? Any
> thoughts would be appreciated. I ride daily when the temperature is over
> 40 f. Longest ride each year is a century with 20 mile rides each night
> and many 30 to 40 mile rides on the weekends.
>

03-03-2005, 08:00 PM

I have $300 repair bills regularly, and am satisfied with them. My TREK
7500 has over 30,000 miles on it, with year round riding, including WI cold,
rain, snow, slush, salt, sand and all those good things. I don't maintain
it diligently, and am not interested in learning how to fix it beyond
changing flat tires, and via kevlar linings and thorn resistant tubes, do
that as rarely as possible. I am blessed with enough of an income to handle
the bills, and find it more convenient to do it that way. Same with my
current TREK 520, which has about 20000 miles; the last one was totaled in
an accident in 2003. I have a third bike for bad winter days only. It is a
single speed that isn't rendered inoperable by ice buildups. A couple of
times I've found it less expensive to just buy a new one rather than to fix
it, as it really takes abuse.

"Mary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:4224ea05$0$165$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].. .
> six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put about
> 4500 miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to have
> the chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call from the
> mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that total cost of
> replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300. He
> also said that many of the parts on the bike have become obsolete and that
> in 6 months it will be hard to find parts for the bike. He recommended I
> come in and look at a new bike in the 600 to 700 $$ range.
> I thought this was the last bike I would have to buy. Didn't bikes use to
> last like forever? Your opinion...should I fix the bike I have now for
> 300$ and buy new when I come to that bridge or purchase new now? Any
> thoughts would be appreciated. I ride daily when the temperature is over
> 40 f. Longest ride each year is a century with 20 mile rides each night
> and many 30 to 40 mile rides on the weekends.
>

03-03-2005, 09:04 PM

On 3 Mar 2005 11:53:53 -0800, "Peter Cole" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
>RonSonic wrote:
>
>>
>> WHOA!
>>
>> We've got a bike with 27,000 miles on it and we don't know a damn
>thing about
>> its maintenance history. Do you really think that any bike with that
>kind of
>> mileage is going to get fixed in twenty freeking minutes? Especially
>since the
>> owner doesn't seem to have any perspective on replacing cogs or
>chains.
>>
>> One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
>recommend
>> for any bike over two years old at $192.
>
>WHOA, yourself! That is a total ripoff. $192 for what? What's the point
>in repacking bearings that don't need it? What does "2 years" mean? A
>fixed price "tune-up" is a sure sign of a scam. More than likely most
>bikes are going to get much more work than they need -- or at least
>charged for it...
>
>The truth is that some components are consumables, and that LBS parts
>prices are about 3X what the equivalent is when bundled in a new bike.
>Put in labor, and the "throw away threshold" gets closer to periodic
>maintenance costs. At the same time, components are generally of a
>higher quality and longer lasting. I can't think of how I could spend
>$200 on a 2 year old bike, even a heavily ridden one.
>
>Stuff should be replaced as it wears out, bearings only need repack if
>contaminated. LBS should fix what's broken and just charge for that.

I'll agree that their recommendation for service is more frequent than what I
(and you) consider necessary.

Here's the thing, you and I KNOW what needs work when. We aren't like that other
poster who couldn't tell if the handlebars were falling loose. We work on things
like bikes and have a feel for this stuff. We know what we are looking at.

Now imagine if you had no clue whatsoever - what would someone have to do to
ensure you were safe, happy, rolling smooth and never ever stranded? What level
of care and maintenance does that take. A hell of a lot more than you or I are
going to do because we are a different customer than that.

I do music electronics. Some people want to never think about the gear and are
happy to pay me accordingly, others have different priorities. Neither of them
is getting ripped off. This is a related situation.

Now, as to how are you going to spend $200 on a bike. It's called labor and it
has to be paid for or you don't get any, or you get the ****ty indifferent kind.
What is your time worth? What is the time of someone you want working on your
bike worth? Wear and tear on tools? Overhead?

Let's follow this up a little further. You say parts should only be replaced at
need and bearings repacked if contaminated and so on. How much time, and this is
an actual question since I'm not a pro bike mechanic like some of our guys here,
does it take to inspect everything and confirm that none of that needs done.
Next question - how much do you charge for that inspection. How much work could
you have done in the time it took to inspect? How much time to see that the
bearing's grease is uncontaminated compared to repacking and replacing bearings?

What would you have to charge?

Ron

03-03-2005, 09:04 PM

On 3 Mar 2005 11:53:53 -0800, "Peter Cole" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>
>RonSonic wrote:
>
>>
>> WHOA!
>>
>> We've got a bike with 27,000 miles on it and we don't know a damn
>thing about
>> its maintenance history. Do you really think that any bike with that
>kind of
>> mileage is going to get fixed in twenty freeking minutes? Especially
>since the
>> owner doesn't seem to have any perspective on replacing cogs or
>chains.
>>
>> One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
>recommend
>> for any bike over two years old at $192.
>
>WHOA, yourself! That is a total ripoff. $192 for what? What's the point
>in repacking bearings that don't need it? What does "2 years" mean? A
>fixed price "tune-up" is a sure sign of a scam. More than likely most
>bikes are going to get much more work than they need -- or at least
>charged for it...
>
>The truth is that some components are consumables, and that LBS parts
>prices are about 3X what the equivalent is when bundled in a new bike.
>Put in labor, and the "throw away threshold" gets closer to periodic
>maintenance costs. At the same time, components are generally of a
>higher quality and longer lasting. I can't think of how I could spend
>$200 on a 2 year old bike, even a heavily ridden one.
>
>Stuff should be replaced as it wears out, bearings only need repack if
>contaminated. LBS should fix what's broken and just charge for that.

I'll agree that their recommendation for service is more frequent than what I
(and you) consider necessary.

Here's the thing, you and I KNOW what needs work when. We aren't like that other
poster who couldn't tell if the handlebars were falling loose. We work on things
like bikes and have a feel for this stuff. We know what we are looking at.

Now imagine if you had no clue whatsoever - what would someone have to do to
ensure you were safe, happy, rolling smooth and never ever stranded? What level
of care and maintenance does that take. A hell of a lot more than you or I are
going to do because we are a different customer than that.

I do music electronics. Some people want to never think about the gear and are
happy to pay me accordingly, others have different priorities. Neither of them
is getting ripped off. This is a related situation.

Now, as to how are you going to spend $200 on a bike. It's called labor and it
has to be paid for or you don't get any, or you get the ****ty indifferent kind.
What is your time worth? What is the time of someone you want working on your
bike worth? Wear and tear on tools? Overhead?

Let's follow this up a little further. You say parts should only be replaced at
need and bearings repacked if contaminated and so on. How much time, and this is
an actual question since I'm not a pro bike mechanic like some of our guys here,
does it take to inspect everything and confirm that none of that needs done.
Next question - how much do you charge for that inspection. How much work could
you have done in the time it took to inspect? How much time to see that the
bearing's grease is uncontaminated compared to repacking and replacing bearings?

What would you have to charge?

Ron

03-04-2005, 12:26 AM

From: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Mary) comes this observation:

><snip>He also said that many of the
>parts on the bike have become obsolete
>and that in 6 months it will be hard to
>find parts for the bike. / I thought this
>was the last bike I would have to buy.
>Didn't bikes use to last like
>forever?</snip>

Welcome to 21st century bicycling, Mary :-3(

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]