Rivendell customer service is very good - Page 5

03-06-2005, 05:33 AM

"Zoot Katz" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> Sun, 06 Mar 2005 01:14:52 GMT,
> <gQsWd.129433$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com> ,
> "Gooserider" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> >As for the wait---that's to have a custom frame built.
> >They have ONE builder and ONE painter.
>
> Here's a hand brazed custom or semi custom frame builder with a
> history of doing it right. Some of their employees have been brazing,
> painting and detailing frames for over 30 years.
>
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> Certain models are custom sized for no extra charge.
> The "King of Mercia" ranges from ~$730 to $1100 depending on your
> choice of Reynolds tubing. Most braze-ons are standard though you can
> specify which ones you want.
>
> The lugs on the Vincitore are as fancy as anything you're likely to
> see. http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame...itore_vl_3.jpg
> The most expensive one is a full $1000 less than the Rivendell and you
> could be riding it at least a year sooner. I doubt your heirs will
> notice the extra wear when it becomes theirs.
>
> Their paint selection is boggling.
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> If you're willing to wait ten days after completion, shipping and
> insurance is only ~$150.
>
> When English frame builders are asked to name the best frames built in
> England, "Mercian" is consistently mentioned near the top of the list.
>
> The Rivendell has a pretty head badge and certain cache with the
> nouveau rich. Waiting two years for custom frame is crazy unless it's
> really unique. Rivendells just aren't that unique. They're simply
> mimicking what Mercian has been doing since Grant Peterson was riding
> with training wheels.
> --
Hey thanks, Zoot. I'll check out Mercian!

03-06-2005, 06:09 AM

I got a Riv for Christmas, not the custom, a production Rambo,
complete bike. (some do not like that name, but as soon as
I read it I know it was right for me, after all, my other bike is a
hollowpoint)
My MTB is just too clumsy and too heavy on pavement
when I can't get to the trails.
I would go to my LBS (Frenchie's) and drool over all the road candy
but I had no clue, I never owned a road bike, been riding less than a
year.
(well, not since I got my driver's license anyhow and that is decades)
I'm not going to buy a basic bike and figure it out, I wanted something
I could enjoy for at least five years without feeling held back as my
skill improved. I figured on paying $2-3,000 based on what I saw at the
LBS.

I had it out only once on a rare mild day and I rode for nearly three hours.
I haven't gotten the seat and bars just right yet, but it is comfortable,
handles very nicely, and gracefully forgave me when I ignored the potholes.

JP

"Zoot Katz" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> Sun, 06 Mar 2005 00:27:28 -0600,
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>, kituyjkm <fchg> wrote:
>
> >These days I ride a Cannondale mass market aluminum frame bike with
> >welds so smooth it looks like the frame was molded. Now THAT'S art!
> >It has a beautiful pearlescent blue/purple paint job (factory issue)
> >the likes of which I have never seen on another bike
>
> I like the paint on the cookie-cutte Kleins that look different coming
> and going.
> --
> zk

03-06-2005, 06:09 AM

I got a Riv for Christmas, not the custom, a production Rambo,
complete bike. (some do not like that name, but as soon as
I read it I know it was right for me, after all, my other bike is a
hollowpoint)
My MTB is just too clumsy and too heavy on pavement
when I can't get to the trails.
I would go to my LBS (Frenchie's) and drool over all the road candy
but I had no clue, I never owned a road bike, been riding less than a
year.
(well, not since I got my driver's license anyhow and that is decades)
I'm not going to buy a basic bike and figure it out, I wanted something
I could enjoy for at least five years without feeling held back as my
skill improved. I figured on paying $2-3,000 based on what I saw at the
LBS.

I had it out only once on a rare mild day and I rode for nearly three hours.
I haven't gotten the seat and bars just right yet, but it is comfortable,
handles very nicely, and gracefully forgave me when I ignored the potholes.

JP

"Zoot Katz" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> Sun, 06 Mar 2005 00:27:28 -0600,
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>, kituyjkm <fchg> wrote:
>
> >These days I ride a Cannondale mass market aluminum frame bike with
> >welds so smooth it looks like the frame was molded. Now THAT'S art!
> >It has a beautiful pearlescent blue/purple paint job (factory issue)
> >the likes of which I have never seen on another bike
>
> I like the paint on the cookie-cutte Kleins that look different coming
> and going.
> --
> zk

03-06-2005, 07:10 AM

kituyjkm wrote:
> I used to ride a Raleigh 10 speed when I was in high school, until it
> was stolen. Lugged frame, down-tube shifters, the whole nine
> yards... I didn't think it was anything special and still don't. I
> really hated the down-tube shifters.

I don't like downtube shifters either. But the Raleigh probably had
advantages that your Cannondale doesn't, assuming it's a road frame.
More on this below.

> These days I ride a Cannondale mass market aluminum frame bike with
> welds so smooth it looks like the frame was molded. Now THAT'S art!
> It has a beautiful pearlescent blue/purple paint job (factory issue)
> the likes of which I have never seen on another bike.

Is a well-filleted TIG weld better "art" than a well-brazed and
detailed lug joint? Personal preference, I'd say.

> 6 months after you get the $4k Rivendell, the paint will be scratched
> and chipped (as is the paint on my Cannondale, and every other bike
> that actually gets ridden). Parts that wear will wear out and
require
> replacement.

Here I'll disagree. I just worked on a friend's bike, a mid-1980s
Trek. Her 20 year old bike had perhaps one paint nick in it, and it's
ridden almost daily, including many long tours. I don't know how she
does it, but she keeps that bike looking really nice, so it's possible.

> I hear a lot of this crap about leaving bikes to your kids as a way
to
> justify the ridiculous price. The Rivendell marketing guys came up
> with a great line there! Why not ride an equivalent performing bike
> and leave your kid the $3k difference instead- they may not want your
> old, beat-up $4k bike- they may have other interests... I'll bet they
> can find a use for the $3k.

You get to do what you want with your money - at least, after taxes -
so that part's up to you. But there's more to a Rivendell than just
heirloom value.

I don't own a Riv. In fact, my "good" bike is a Cannondale touring
bike. But Rivendell does correct some egregious mistakes made by most
bike manufacturers. (Most of these mistakes are _not_ in my touring
bike, BTW.)

Most high-zoot road bike makers assume you'll never want tires wider
than 28 mm, or maybe even 25. They assume you'll absolutely never put
fenders on the bike. They'll assume you don't want to carry any more
than 2 pounds of luggage. They'll assume you want every last bit of
aerodynamic efficiency, even if it means your nose is scraping the
front tire as you ride. They assume you think every spoke you remove
from a wheel makes the bike much faster. They assume you want gears
the same as those used by your Tour de France hero, even if you order a
triple crank. They assume you want an unrepairable bucket of ratchet
parts involved in every gear shift you make. They assume you want the
fork to visually blend into the head tube, even if it means you may
never be able to replace your headset.

But they'll assume you'll never want to replace the headset, because by
then you'll want their NEW zero-clearance, stretched-out, no-fender,
high-gear, unrepairable delicate-tire plaything. And they figure this
is going to continue, at LEAST until they get the total number of gears
to exceed the total number of spokes.

Rivendell's philosophy is different. You may disagree, but they sell
to people who think they're more likely to need mountain-climbing gears
than motor-pacing gears. People who may actually ride in the rain, and
so want fenders. People who think it's important to be comfortable.
People who realize 150 psi tires aren't much better than steel tires.
People who carry luggage... and so on. Admittedly, they also target
people with money who appreciate bicycle art. But that's their choice.

Again, you get to spend your money where you like. Likewise, companies
target the market they like. But personally, I think the design of a
Rivendell makes much more sense for a real-world rider than the design
of the typical pretend-racer road bike.

03-06-2005, 07:10 AM

kituyjkm wrote:
> I used to ride a Raleigh 10 speed when I was in high school, until it
> was stolen. Lugged frame, down-tube shifters, the whole nine
> yards... I didn't think it was anything special and still don't. I
> really hated the down-tube shifters.

I don't like downtube shifters either. But the Raleigh probably had
advantages that your Cannondale doesn't, assuming it's a road frame.
More on this below.

> These days I ride a Cannondale mass market aluminum frame bike with
> welds so smooth it looks like the frame was molded. Now THAT'S art!
> It has a beautiful pearlescent blue/purple paint job (factory issue)
> the likes of which I have never seen on another bike.

Is a well-filleted TIG weld better "art" than a well-brazed and
detailed lug joint? Personal preference, I'd say.

> 6 months after you get the $4k Rivendell, the paint will be scratched
> and chipped (as is the paint on my Cannondale, and every other bike
> that actually gets ridden). Parts that wear will wear out and
require
> replacement.

Here I'll disagree. I just worked on a friend's bike, a mid-1980s
Trek. Her 20 year old bike had perhaps one paint nick in it, and it's
ridden almost daily, including many long tours. I don't know how she
does it, but she keeps that bike looking really nice, so it's possible.

> I hear a lot of this crap about leaving bikes to your kids as a way
to
> justify the ridiculous price. The Rivendell marketing guys came up
> with a great line there! Why not ride an equivalent performing bike
> and leave your kid the $3k difference instead- they may not want your
> old, beat-up $4k bike- they may have other interests... I'll bet they
> can find a use for the $3k.

You get to do what you want with your money - at least, after taxes -
so that part's up to you. But there's more to a Rivendell than just
heirloom value.

I don't own a Riv. In fact, my "good" bike is a Cannondale touring
bike. But Rivendell does correct some egregious mistakes made by most
bike manufacturers. (Most of these mistakes are _not_ in my touring
bike, BTW.)

Most high-zoot road bike makers assume you'll never want tires wider
than 28 mm, or maybe even 25. They assume you'll absolutely never put
fenders on the bike. They'll assume you don't want to carry any more
than 2 pounds of luggage. They'll assume you want every last bit of
aerodynamic efficiency, even if it means your nose is scraping the
front tire as you ride. They assume you think every spoke you remove
from a wheel makes the bike much faster. They assume you want gears
the same as those used by your Tour de France hero, even if you order a
triple crank. They assume you want an unrepairable bucket of ratchet
parts involved in every gear shift you make. They assume you want the
fork to visually blend into the head tube, even if it means you may
never be able to replace your headset.

But they'll assume you'll never want to replace the headset, because by
then you'll want their NEW zero-clearance, stretched-out, no-fender,
high-gear, unrepairable delicate-tire plaything. And they figure this
is going to continue, at LEAST until they get the total number of gears
to exceed the total number of spokes.

Rivendell's philosophy is different. You may disagree, but they sell
to people who think they're more likely to need mountain-climbing gears
than motor-pacing gears. People who may actually ride in the rain, and
so want fenders. People who think it's important to be comfortable.
People who realize 150 psi tires aren't much better than steel tires.
People who carry luggage... and so on. Admittedly, they also target
people with money who appreciate bicycle art. But that's their choice.

Again, you get to spend your money where you like. Likewise, companies
target the market they like. But personally, I think the design of a
Rivendell makes much more sense for a real-world rider than the design
of the typical pretend-racer road bike.

03-06-2005, 07:22 AM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> I've considered Rivendell, but I'd really like to see what they could do
> if they committed themselves to building something out of carbon fibre
> in compact geometry, you know, sort of an elite touring version of a
> Giant TCR Zero....

I like the Rivendell Downhill bike:
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/nanodrive/rivendell-sauron.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

03-06-2005, 07:22 AM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> I've considered Rivendell, but I'd really like to see what they could do
> if they committed themselves to building something out of carbon fibre
> in compact geometry, you know, sort of an elite touring version of a
> Giant TCR Zero....

I like the Rivendell Downhill bike:
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/nanodrive/rivendell-sauron.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

03-06-2005, 10:18 AM

My $500 Cannondale hybrid can take racks, fenders, etc. etc. I have
fenders and a rack on the rear (actually a $2 plastic basket tie
wrapped to a blackburn rack) that hauls my 20 lbs of text and
notebooks to school almost daily. I have ebeen riding this bike for
about 10 years now.

When you TRY to spend $4k on a bike you get a racing machine with all
the deficiencies you listed. So if someone is TRYING to spend $4k on
a bike and sees all the racers and thinks, "Gee, that ain't for me",
they start looking at Rivendells. If the goal is to spend $4k on a
bike, then get the Rivendell. If the goal is to get a bike that is
daily useable in the real world and accomodates larger tires, racks,
fenders, lights, water bottles, etc., then there is no need to spend
$4k. All the big bike makers make hybrid type machines in $500-600
range.

As far as lugged frames go, the lugs are made by some bike frame parts
maker. The tubing is brazed in (essentially high temp soldering).
There isn't much art to brazing. I have done it and it is pretty
easy. The lugs on the frame suck the solder into the joint. It's a
whole lot harder to make a welded joint look pretty that a lugged
joint. The beauty of a lugged frame is the nice curly-Qs that they
put in to make it look fancy. Rivendell doesn't do that, the frame
parts maker does that.

03-06-2005, 10:18 AM

My $500 Cannondale hybrid can take racks, fenders, etc. etc. I have
fenders and a rack on the rear (actually a $2 plastic basket tie
wrapped to a blackburn rack) that hauls my 20 lbs of text and
notebooks to school almost daily. I have ebeen riding this bike for
about 10 years now.

When you TRY to spend $4k on a bike you get a racing machine with all
the deficiencies you listed. So if someone is TRYING to spend $4k on
a bike and sees all the racers and thinks, "Gee, that ain't for me",
they start looking at Rivendells. If the goal is to spend $4k on a
bike, then get the Rivendell. If the goal is to get a bike that is
daily useable in the real world and accomodates larger tires, racks,
fenders, lights, water bottles, etc., then there is no need to spend
$4k. All the big bike makers make hybrid type machines in $500-600
range.

As far as lugged frames go, the lugs are made by some bike frame parts
maker. The tubing is brazed in (essentially high temp soldering).
There isn't much art to brazing. I have done it and it is pretty
easy. The lugs on the frame suck the solder into the joint. It's a
whole lot harder to make a welded joint look pretty that a lugged
joint. The beauty of a lugged frame is the nice curly-Qs that they
put in to make it look fancy. Rivendell doesn't do that, the frame
parts maker does that.

03-06-2005, 11:10 AM

"kituyjkm" <fchg> wrote in message
news

3lm215as0ah35gjagvs1qshpubm42bd9i@4ax.com...
> My $500 Cannondale hybrid can take racks, fenders, etc. etc. I have
> fenders and a rack on the rear (actually a $2 plastic basket tie
> wrapped to a blackburn rack) that hauls my 20 lbs of text and
> notebooks to school almost daily. I have ebeen riding this bike for
> about 10 years now.

Are you planning to tour on your Cannondale hybrid? I plan to tour on the
Riv.

> When you TRY to spend $4k on a bike you get a racing machine with all
> the deficiencies you listed. So if someone is TRYING to spend $4k on
> a bike and sees all the racers and thinks, "Gee, that ain't for me",
> they start looking at Rivendells. If the goal is to spend $4k on a
> bike, then get the Rivendell. If the goal is to get a bike that is
> daily useable in the real world and accomodates larger tires, racks,
> fenders, lights, water bottles, etc., then there is no need to spend
> $4k. All the big bike makers make hybrid type machines in $500-600
> range.

I don't want a hybrid. I want a classic road bike with touring capability
and a drop bar. Why are you trying to compare the two? A touring bike and a
hybrid are not the same.

> As far as lugged frames go, the lugs are made by some bike frame parts
> maker. The tubing is brazed in (essentially high temp soldering).
> There isn't much art to brazing. I have done it and it is pretty
> easy. The lugs on the frame suck the solder into the joint. It's a
> whole lot harder to make a welded joint look pretty that a lugged
> joint. The beauty of a lugged frame is the nice curly-Qs that they
> put in to make it look fancy. Rivendell doesn't do that, the frame
> parts maker does that.

Sigh... You are entitled to your opinion. If nobody buys the lugs to build
up frames, then the lug maker will go out of business, and there will be no
more lugged frames. Builders tend to put their own touch on the lugs,
anyway, filing them to suit their own aesthetic tastes. Take a look at the
Waterford website to see what custom filed lugs look like. It's an art form,
not that a smooth Cannondale-esque TIG weld isn't, but lugs just look better
to my eyes. It's not about spending 4 grand. It's about buying something I
find pleasing to the eye, and something I want. Thank you for your input,
though.