Pedal car (Dino, Berg,Kettler) questions. - Page 3

12-25-2006, 01:51 PM

"what does THIS button do?" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1167049807.639057.267510@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>
> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
> improvement.
>
> It would be better, for instance, if the motivator were on something
> more stable than two-wheels, and it might be good if the plow pushed
> the snow out of the way, before the wheels ...
>
> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
> discover these things called pedal cars
>
> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
>
> They seem to be popular(?) in europe, but basically non-existant in the
> US. The Dino seems to be the bee's knees (very nice), with a 5-speed +
> reverse gear, 200+ kg payload .... very burly, and quite what i'd
> imagine i'd like to have to push a little V-plow along the trail.
>
> The only real problems i see are (a) i'd have to import most of them
> because of the limited availability in the states (Kettler seems sort
> of available, i.e. special order at Dick's Sports) and (b) they cost a
> lot of money -- 900 Pounds Sterling for the top of the line Dino car!
>
> so i'm seeking information and pointers. I'd like to know of club
> websites etc. for pedal-car entheusiasts, hear of people's
> experiences/opinions etc.
>

I think one of the trikes (tricycles) would work well for this purpose.
You could use an upright trike like you see at a lot of retirement
communities, or a recumbent trike.
The regular upright trikes cost less than the recumbent trikes do.
Many of these trikes can be had with a three speed. i don't know about 5
speed or 7 speed models.
But one could probably put in a Shimano 7 or 8 speed hub in lieu of the
three speed hub.

12-25-2006, 02:36 PM

Alan Braggins wrote:

> I'm trying to imaging using the wheel of a Wovel
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> as a direct drive front wheel on a delta trike, but failing.

The Wovel by itself looks like a far more workable solution than any of
the pedal cars that have been described in this thread.

mark

12-25-2006, 05:39 PM

"Earl Bollinger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. ..
> "what does THIS button do?" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:1167049807.639057.267510@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
>> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
>> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
>> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
>> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
>> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
>> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>>
>> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
>> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
>> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
>> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
>> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
>> improvement.
>>
>> It would be better, for instance, if the motivator were on something
>> more stable than two-wheels, and it might be good if the plow pushed
>> the snow out of the way, before the wheels ...
>>
>> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
>> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
>> discover these things called pedal cars
>>
>> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
>> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
>> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
>>
>> They seem to be popular(?) in europe, but basically non-existant in the
>> US. The Dino seems to be the bee's knees (very nice), with a 5-speed +
>> reverse gear, 200+ kg payload .... very burly, and quite what i'd
>> imagine i'd like to have to push a little V-plow along the trail.
>>
>> The only real problems i see are (a) i'd have to import most of them
>> because of the limited availability in the states (Kettler seems sort
>> of available, i.e. special order at Dick's Sports) and (b) they cost a
>> lot of money -- 900 Pounds Sterling for the top of the line Dino car!
>>
>> so i'm seeking information and pointers. I'd like to know of club
>> websites etc. for pedal-car entheusiasts, hear of people's
>> experiences/opinions etc.
>>
>
> I think one of the trikes (tricycles) would work well for this purpose.
> You could use an upright trike like you see at a lot of retirement
> communities, or a recumbent trike.
> The regular upright trikes cost less than the recumbent trikes do.
> Many of these trikes can be had with a three speed. i don't know about 5
> speed or 7 speed models.
> But one could probably put in a Shimano 7 or 8 speed hub in lieu of the
> three speed hub.
>

I forgot to mention that the recumbent trikes are reversed with the two
front wheels steerable and the single rear wheel for power.
Usually they run from 21 speeds on up to 60 speeds. Thus one could use it to
push a snow plow more effectively.

12-25-2006, 09:41 PM

Earl Bollinger wrote:
> "Earl Bollinger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. ..
> > "what does THIS button do?" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > news:1167049807.639057.267510@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
> >> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> >> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> >> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> >> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> >> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> >> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> >> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
> >>
> >> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> >> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
> >> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
> >> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
> >> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
> >> improvement.
> >>
> >> It would be better, for instance, if the motivator were on something
> >> more stable than two-wheels, and it might be good if the plow pushed
> >> the snow out of the way, before the wheels ...
> >>
> >> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
> >> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
> >> discover these things called pedal cars
> >>
> >> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
> >> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
> >> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
> >>
> >> They seem to be popular(?) in europe, but basically non-existant in the
> >> US. The Dino seems to be the bee's knees (very nice), with a 5-speed +
> >> reverse gear, 200+ kg payload .... very burly, and quite what i'd
> >> imagine i'd like to have to push a little V-plow along the trail.
> >>
> >> The only real problems i see are (a) i'd have to import most of them
> >> because of the limited availability in the states (Kettler seems sort
> >> of available, i.e. special order at Dick's Sports) and (b) they cost a
> >> lot of money -- 900 Pounds Sterling for the top of the line Dino car!
> >>
> >> so i'm seeking information and pointers. I'd like to know of club
> >> websites etc. for pedal-car entheusiasts, hear of people's
> >> experiences/opinions etc.
> >>
> >
> > I think one of the trikes (tricycles) would work well for this purpose.
> > You could use an upright trike like you see at a lot of retirement
> > communities, or a recumbent trike.
> > The regular upright trikes cost less than the recumbent trikes do.
> > Many of these trikes can be had with a three speed. i don't know about 5
> > speed or 7 speed models.
> > But one could probably put in a Shimano 7 or 8 speed hub in lieu of the
> > three speed hub.
> >
>
> I forgot to mention that the recumbent trikes are reversed with the two
> front wheels steerable and the single rear wheel for power.
> Usually they run from 21 speeds on up to 60 speeds. Thus one could use it to
> push a snow plow more effectively.

Mechanical advantage looms large in my thinking. While a lot of the
other suggestions sound pretty good at first pass, many don't have a
real mechanical torque multiplication advantage. They'll work on an
ideal or light snowfall, or over a "short" distance but will tend to be
difficult or fatigueing to use in heavy or frozen/wet slop or over a
distance of 1~3 miles.

Operating as a schneepflug (*) over distances in this mileage regime,
i'd be more inclined to use something that could grind, slowly but
inexorably, into drifts. I've found that the shock-loading associated
with riding a high speed profile into the snow can really trash my
quadraceps. A 60-speed sounds like it might have a bit of torque
multiplication. :-)

I will look into tadpoles.

..max
*lansgsamer schneepflug.

12-26-2006, 01:26 AM

In chi.general what does THIS button do? <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.

Quit bitching and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?

12-26-2006, 02:24 AM

Cydrome Leader wrote:
> In chi.general what does THIS button do? <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> > Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> > coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> > a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> > (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> > off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> > won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> > we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>
> Quit bitching and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?

Any dope can to things the easy way.

...max

12-26-2006, 06:12 AM

what does THIS button do?! wrote:
> Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> In chi.general what does THIS button do? <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>>> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
>>> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help
>>> keep a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
>>> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on
>>> the off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental
>>> units won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move
>>> it. If we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>>
>> Quit bitching and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
>> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
>
> Any dope can to things the easy way.
>
The OP's coworker has already gotten in trouble with the government for
plowing this. Governments are always worried about liability. I think part
of the reason the government relented is due to the novelty of a bicycle
snowplow.

In addition, the OP's coworker is going to work. Riding a bicycle to work is
one thing, even with a plow. Pushing a snowblower to work is quite another.

12-26-2006, 08:40 AM

"Mike Kruger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> said in chi.general:

>>> Quit bitching and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
>>> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
>>
>> Any dope can to things the easy way.
>>
>The OP's coworker has already gotten in trouble with the government for
>plowing this. Governments are always worried about liability. I think part
>of the reason the government relented is due to the novelty of a bicycle
>snowplow.
>
>In addition, the OP's coworker is going to work. Riding a bicycle to work is
>one thing, even with a plow. Pushing a snowblower to work is quite another.

Nothing for it, then. Go down to Home Depot, hire yourself a bunch of
day laborers, and hand them each a snow shovel.
--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
- Jonathan Swift

12-26-2006, 08:46 AM

In article <1167049807.639057.267510@79g2000cws.googlegroups. com>
what does THIS button do? <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>
> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
> improvement.
>
An easy-to-build improvement over the system you have ATM would be a
trike with two small wheels at the front, the plough in front of them
and a fat studded driven tyre at the back. You don't need to worry much
about weight or handling at speed, but it wants to be robust so it
withstands ramming into the heavier snow - just replacing the forks on a
clunker with a wheeled plough won't be up to the job because the frame
will likely bend/break and the steering would probably be unmanageable.

To get better performance in heavier conditions you're going to need
something more than a simple plough to shift the snow, because pedal
power via the drive wheel won't be enough, and the engineering becomes
rather more complicated - I'm thinking some sort of Archimedes-screw
type arrangement that's driven semi-independent of the propulsion
system. I wonder how well that would resist clogging - probably not
very well at all.

How about a tandem - front rider powers the 'blower', rear rider propels
the machine, steering supplemented with independent brakes on each front
wheel ...

I could go on ... :-)

12-26-2006, 08:49 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Scott en Aztl?n <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

> "Mike Kruger" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> said in chi.general:
>
> >>> Quit bitching and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
> >>> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
> >>
> >> Any dope can to things the easy way.
> >>
> >The OP's coworker has already gotten in trouble with the government for
> >plowing this. Governments are always worried about liability. I think part
> >of the reason the government relented is due to the novelty of a bicycle
> >snowplow.
> >
> >In addition, the OP's coworker is going to work. Riding a bicycle to work is
> >one thing, even with a plow. Pushing a snowblower to work is quite another.
>
> Nothing for it, then. Go down to Home Depot, hire yourself a bunch of
> day laborers, and hand them each a snow shovel.

HD's around here don't have guys waiting for work