Pedal car (Dino, Berg,Kettler) questions. - Page 6

12-31-2006, 06:51 AM

In chi.general Scott en Aztl?n <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
: Chicago Paddling-Fishing <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> said in chi.general:

: >I think max should post this in alt.amish.plowing for a more meaningful
: >reply...

: Wow, you mean the Amish have found a way to post to USENET without
: computers, Internet access, or electricity? I'm definitely impressed!
: --
: "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
: - Jonathan Swift

Um... well, it was sort of a joke, but they did have snow plows for horses
and I think Max could plow it a lot faster on a horse than by hand...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Perhaps Max can build something like this and have Barb sit on it to provide
a bit of weight as Max towed her around the trail...

--
John Nelson
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01-03-2007, 05:50 PM

what does THIS button do? wrote:
[...]
> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. [...]
> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
> discover these things called pedal cars
>
> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>

Thank you to everyone for their thoughtful replies. I've come to the
conclusion that, as much fun as it might be to acquire an adult-sized
pedal car, its just not ideal for the job.

Mostly, pedal cars seem to be a bit wider than i'm wanting; i'm trying
to stay at about an 18" wide track. Mostly, i want to stay gage
compatible with the currently extant plowing tech in service. As i
wrote originally: a pedal powered bulldozer (but not necessarily
tracked!)

This leads me into waters i fear to navigate: building something my
self. Atomic Zombie freakbike stuff. Welding! terrors!

I'm envisioning some sort of horror created from several gas-pipe
Huffys. I want at to have at least 2 drive wheels, maybe 3 or 4. I'm
thinking 20" tires or smaller. I would probably significantly ballast
the contraption, likely with snow, improve drive wheel traction. In
general, i'm not fond of a single front wheel solution. I would prefer
a two-wheel front end which will give a better mount for the plow.

I'd be interested in any pointers anyone might have to a torque
_increasing_ derailleur lashup. I'm intending to build something that
will have significantly more torque multiplication than your average
MTB granny gear. If i understand the concept correctly, i'm thinking
of being able to shift down to on the order of 4 gear inches or so.

Such a thing seems pretty simple on paper, but ... i don't know
anything, really.

The Huffy vivisecton i can manage w/o too much trouble, but I'd be very
grateful if anyone has pointers on the high-torque derailleur stuff.

..max

01-03-2007, 07:48 PM

"moving on" was a bad subject...
what does THIS button do? wrote:
> what does THIS button do? wrote:
> [...]
> > The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> > in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. [...]
> > Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
> > pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
> > discover these things called pedal cars
> >
> > <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
> > <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
> > <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
>
> Thank you to everyone for their thoughtful replies. I've come to the
> conclusion that, as much fun as it might be to acquire an adult-sized
> pedal car, its just not ideal for the job.
>
> Mostly, pedal cars seem to be a bit wider than i'm wanting; i'm trying
> to stay at about an 18" wide track. Mostly, i want to stay gage
> compatible with the currently extant plowing tech in service. As i
> wrote originally: a pedal powered bulldozer (but not necessarily
> tracked!)
>
> This leads me into waters i fear to navigate: building something my
> self. Atomic Zombie freakbike stuff. Welding! terrors!
>
> I'm envisioning some sort of horror created from several gas-pipe
> Huffys. I want at to have at least 2 drive wheels, maybe 3 or 4. I'm
> thinking 20" tires or smaller. I would probably significantly ballast
> the contraption, likely with snow, improve drive wheel traction. In
> general, i'm not fond of a single front wheel solution. I would prefer
> a two-wheel front end which will give a better mount for the plow.
>
> I'd be interested in any pointers anyone might have to a torque
> _increasing_ derailleur lashup. I'm intending to build something that
> will have significantly more torque multiplication than your average
> MTB granny gear. If i understand the concept correctly, i'm thinking
> of being able to shift down to on the order of 4 gear inches or so.
>
> Such a thing seems pretty simple on paper, but ... i don't know
> anything, really.
>
> The Huffy vivisecton i can manage w/o too much trouble, but I'd be very
> grateful if anyone has pointers on the high-torque derailleur stuff.
>
> .max

01-03-2007, 08:17 PM

In article <1167879051.563049.112750@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...
> I'm envisioning some sort of horror created from several gas-pipe
> Huffys. I want at to have at least 2 drive wheels,

That's relatively easy if you have the extra wheel behind the regular
drive wheel, although it will affect steering.

> maybe 3 or 4.

That's getting complicated, given your apparent reluctance to do A-Team
engineering.

> I'm thinking 20" tires or smaller.

I don't think wheels under 20" will work well - you'd need a wide tyre
with low pressure to maintain a good contact area, and if the wheel
doesn't slip there would be problems with the tyre shifting on the rim
at high torque.

> I would probably significantly ballast
> the contraption, likely with snow, improve drive wheel traction.
> In
> general, i'm not fond of a single front wheel solution. I would prefer
> a two-wheel front end which will give a better mount for the plow.

I'd agree with both of those points.
>
> I'd be interested in any pointers anyone might have to a torque
> _increasing_ derailleur lashup. I'm intending to build something that
> will have significantly more torque multiplication than your average
> MTB granny gear. If i understand the concept correctly, i'm thinking
> of being able to shift down to on the order of 4 gear inches or so.
>
> Such a thing seems pretty simple on paper, but ... i don't know
> anything, really.
>
Say you have a 24 tooth chainring driving a 24 tooth sprocket on a 20
inch wheel - that's 20 gear inches. You could get it down to 5 inches
with two sets of reduction gears each with a 48 tooth and a 24 tooth
sprocket, so that's basically two extra bottom brackets and chainsets
that you need to attach somewhere between the pedals and the hub. You
could achieve the same reduction using a couple of 14-28 freewheels
instead so you'd only need to weld on brackets to hold a couple of hubs,
but the stress on the drive train components will be close to doubled
because of the smaller dimensions. I'm doubtful that a regular wheel is
going to handle the torque anyway - I still reckon it would be better to
use the final drive and rear wheel of a small motorcycle, maybe even the
gearbox too.

01-04-2007, 12:32 AM

In article <1167879051.563049.112750@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>, what does THIS button do? wrote:
>
>This leads me into waters i fear to navigate: building something my
>self. Atomic Zombie freakbike stuff. Welding! terrors!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ?

(Multiple drive wheels will make life much more complicated.)

01-04-2007, 12:57 PM

In article <1167879051.563049.112750@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>,
"what does THIS button do?" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> I'd be interested in any pointers anyone might have to a torque
> _increasing_ derailleur lashup.

Bicycle wheel axles are /not/ indestructible.
But anyway, the Mountain Tamer[tm] Quad
or Triple might be right up your alley.

> I'm intending to build something that
> will have significantly more torque multiplication than your average
> MTB granny gear. If i understand the concept correctly, i'm thinking
> of being able to shift down to on the order of 4 gear inches or so.
>
> Such a thing seems pretty simple on paper, but ... i don't know
> anything, really.
>
> The Huffy vivisecton i can manage w/o too much trouble, but I'd be very
> grateful if anyone has pointers on the high-torque derailleur stuff.

Just for laffs I Googled on: pedal-powered machinery

Here's the first hit I got:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Scroll down to see a pic of something like what you're
interested in.

For plowing snow, I wonder if something designed like
a grader, with a highly articulable blade (rotation and
elevation) positioned mid-vehicle would be more viable?
Such a config would allow you to ballast the front end,
if need be.

The above site also has a link to some sort of
pedal-powered washing machine; I think I'll follow
up on that one.

I haven't looked at any of the other hits yet.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-08-2007, 09:12 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].uk>, Alan Braggins wrote:
>In article <1167879051.563049.112750@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>, what does THIS button do? wrote:
>>
>>This leads me into waters i fear to navigate: building something my
>>self. Atomic Zombie freakbike stuff. Welding! terrors!
>
>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"A human-powered snowplow, seen in Minneapolis. "