Two cyclists attacked and beaten in Portland - Page 9 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

01-20-2007, 08:18 AM

On 2007-01-20, Gooserider <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> Why were some races of people advanced enough to circumnavigate the globe,
> while others TO THIS DAY live in dung huts and wear loincloths? All races
> are not the same. Why is the median IQ of an African 75? Why do Asians
> outscore every other race on IQ tests?

Read _Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel_ and see if your opinion changes.

Hint: location, location, location.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
(_)/ (_)

01-20-2007, 09:49 AM

Tom Keats wrote:
>
> > Are you REALLY going to say that races don't have activities at which they
> > are better than others?
>
> Yup.
>
> Wouldn't it be a cryin' shame if there was a South-African
> Black person or Samoan or Mauri or Fijian Picasso/Einstein/
> Menhuin/(Frank Lloyd) Wright who never got to live up to
> their potential because Society determined they must go through
> the motions of playing rugby in order to entertain other people?

I feel sorriest for those poor Mbuti people who have been denied
careers in pro basketball.

- Frank Krygowski

01-20-2007, 02:16 PM

<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:Jhrsh.24932$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].prodigy.n et...
> On 2007-01-20, Gooserider <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>>
>> Why were some races of people advanced enough to circumnavigate the
>> globe,
>> while others TO THIS DAY live in dung huts and wear loincloths? All races
>> are not the same. Why is the median IQ of an African 75? Why do Asians
>> outscore every other race on IQ tests?
>
> Read _Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel_ and see if your opinion changes.
>
> Hint: location, location, location.
>
>
I don't know what you're getting at. Elaborate, please. I believe that cold
weather rewards intelligence, as having inhospitable winters caused ancient
ancestors to learn to prepare. Those who were not smart enough or had
developed strong enough socities to do so died, and took their gene pool
with them. That's why places which get cold(Europe and Asia) developed
strong socities, excelled in science, architecture, math, and agriculture,
and places which were temperate year round(Africa, South and Central
America) didn't. The less intelligent genes didn't get weeded out, because
food was available year round.

01-20-2007, 03:21 PM

On 2007-01-20, Gooserider <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
><[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:Jhrsh.24932$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].prodigy.n et...
>> On 2007-01-20, Gooserider <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why were some races of people advanced enough to circumnavigate the
>>> globe,
>>> while others TO THIS DAY live in dung huts and wear loincloths? All races
>>> are not the same. Why is the median IQ of an African 75? Why do Asians
>>> outscore every other race on IQ tests?
>>
>> Read _Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel_ and see if your opinion changes.
>>
>> Hint: location, location, location.
>>
>>
> I don't know what you're getting at. Elaborate, please.

Eurasia had a massive confluence of domesticable grains and animals, and a
long east-west axis that allowed crops, animals, and ideas to freely flow
across the continent. Having vast swaths of land at roughly the same latitude
means they have roughly the same climate, meaning this sort of exchange is
rather easy (as these things go).

Africa lacks easily domesticable animals, and its crops couldn't survive the
tropics, leaving them confined to the Sahel region. South Africa could have
been a breadbasket if not for this, but would have to wait for Europeans to
arrive with wheat instead.

Australia lacked all of the above, and is mostly desert. It too would have to
wait for European crops.

New Guinea had agriculture, but confined to the massively fractured highlands.
No animals to domesticate, and free flow of ideas was blocked by the mountains.
Note that New Guinea is one of very few areas of the planet to never be truly
subjugated by Europeans, due to indigenous diseaes that grew in this culture.

The Americas were separated by the Darien swamps of Panama, meaning the Aztec
wheel and Inca llama never met. Maize was slow to be domesticated, putting
the Americas about 8,000 years behind Eurasia in terms of agriculture. The
Aztecs still put up a hell of a fight against Cortez, but were done in by horses
and smallpox.

Agriculture is key. Without it, you have no sedentary society, no surpluses
to feed artisans, politicians, or laborers. In short, no cities, no armies,
no civiliation as we know it. Eurasia had an 8,000 year head start over the
Americas, even more over areas like Australia. Africa and New Guinea were never
able to fully capitalize, due to lack of domestic animals.

Europe came to dominate over the Near East after climate change transformed the
the Fertile Crescent into (mostly) desert. China could have dominated, but the
early development of a single central government meant that any single bad
decision by the imperial court (like, say, burning their shipyards and
oceangoing fleet) had widespread effects. The semi-fractured political landscape
in Europe (caused partially by geography) prevented a bad idea from taking the
whole continent with it (n.b. Columbus failed to sell his ideas to Portugal, so
he went to Spain instead).

Oh, and sedentary societies probably *lower* intelligence, as entire classes are
fed on the backs of the farmers. Hunter-gatherers live and die by their
knowledge of local flora, fauna, and geography. No IQ test I'm aware of measures
survival skills like this.

And we've not even considered the germs that Eurasians picked up from their
herds: smallpox, influenza, etc.

Do read the book. It's a fascinating look at history, culture, and race.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
(_)/ (_)

01-21-2007, 01:03 AM

In article <1169315374.642402.255070@38g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] writes:
>
> Tom Keats wrote:
>>
>> > Are you REALLY going to say that races don't have activities at which they
>> > are better than others?
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be a cryin' shame if there was a South-African
>> Black person or Samoan or Mauri or Fijian Picasso/Einstein/
>> Menhuin/(Frank Lloyd) Wright who never got to live up to
>> their potential because Society determined they must go through
>> the motions of playing rugby in order to entertain other people?
>
> I feel sorriest for those poor Mbuti people who have been denied
> careers in pro basketball.

It's bad when /anybody/ doesn't get even half a fightin'
chance to at least try out and show what they've got,
because they're being off-handedly dismissed from the get-go.

How sorry would you feel about an intelligent, compassionate
and articulate Mbuti woman who's denied an education & career
in medical research, or anthropology, or astrophysics, or
literature, or business, simply because of where she hails
from, and is considered to be "too primitive" or too "not
white" for such lofty goals?

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-21-2007, 03:54 AM

"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news

8avoe.38a.ln@bud.garden.local...
> In article <1169315374.642402.255070@38g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] writes:
>>
>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>
>>> > Are you REALLY going to say that races don't have activities at which
>>> > they
>>> > are better than others?
>>>
>>> Yup.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be a cryin' shame if there was a South-African
>>> Black person or Samoan or Mauri or Fijian Picasso/Einstein/
>>> Menhuin/(Frank Lloyd) Wright who never got to live up to
>>> their potential because Society determined they must go through
>>> the motions of playing rugby in order to entertain other people?
>>
>> I feel sorriest for those poor Mbuti people who have been denied
>> careers in pro basketball.
>
> It's bad when /anybody/ doesn't get even half a fightin'
> chance to at least try out and show what they've got,
> because they're being off-handedly dismissed from the get-go.
>
> How sorry would you feel about an intelligent, compassionate
> and articulate Mbuti woman who's denied an education & career
> in medical research, or anthropology, or astrophysics, or
> literature, or business, simply because of where she hails
> from, and is considered to be "too primitive" or too "not
> white" for such lofty goals?
>
Yes, Tom, you nailed it. The reason Africa is not far removed from the stone
age is because "they haven't been given a chance". Never mind the trillions
of dollars which have been poured into that continent throughout history.

01-21-2007, 08:37 AM

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <1169315374.642402.255070@38g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] writes:
> >
> >
> > I feel sorriest for those poor Mbuti people who have been denied
> > careers in pro basketball.
>
> It's bad when /anybody/ doesn't get even half a fightin'
> chance to at least try out and show what they've got...
> because they're being off-handedly dismissed from the get-go.

.... Even if they're four feet, six inches tall? ;-)

> How sorry would you feel about an intelligent, compassionate
> and articulate Mbuti woman who's denied an education & career
> in medical research, or anthropology, or astrophysics, or
> literature, or business, simply because of where she hails
> from, and is considered to be "too primitive" or too "not
> white" for such lofty goals?

I'd feel bad. On the one hand, I think every individual should be
treated fairly.

On the other hand, I think it's silly to pretend there are _no_
differences between any groups of people.

Yes, the popular concept of "race" is faulty. For one thing, it's
dominated by skin color, and ignores much else. I recall the fury of a
chemistry professor I knew in the 1960s. He was a dark-skinned East
Indian, and he was treated very badly when traveling through the
American southeast.

However, knowing him, I wouldn't be surprised if part of his fury was
because he knew _he_ was "better than those black people." IOW, the
redneck racism probably offended him more because of his own racism.

Likewise, after living in rural Georgia for a while, I saw plenty of
truly stupid and offensive behavior by the "Good Ol' Boys." I feel it
would be silly to assume that the next tobacco chewing, Stars & Bars
flying, gunrack-equipped pickup driving Georgia boy of Scots-Irish
descent would be perfectly charitable to my black friends.

There are cultural differences, and there are genetic differences,
between people around the globe. They're not typically binary
differences; they're more like overlapping normal curves.

But yes, we should be fair in our dealings with any individual.

- Frank Krygowski

01-22-2007, 12:02 PM

Tom Keats wrote:

> How sorry would you feel about an intelligent, compassionate
> and articulate Mbuti woman who's denied an education & career
> in medical research, or anthropology, or astrophysics, or
> literature, or business, simply because of where she hails
> from, and is considered to be "too primitive" or too "not
> white" for such lofty goals?

I wonder what college/university in the US would not admit
someone for being too "not white"?

SMH

01-23-2007, 06:28 AM

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>
>> How sorry would you feel about an intelligent, compassionate
>> and articulate Mbuti woman who's denied an education & career
>> in medical research, or anthropology, or astrophysics, or
>> literature, or business, simply because of where she hails
>> from, and is considered to be "too primitive" or too "not
>> white" for such lofty goals?
>
> I wonder what college/university in the US would not admit
> someone for being too "not white"?

Don't know, but my (white) brother got a minority scholarship while
attending a predominantly black school!

Pat