Can a newbie teach things about descending? - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

01-21-2007, 05:22 PM

I'm heading down 84 (above Woodside, California) with my 14-year-old son
today; he's got maybe 500 (or less) road miles under his belt, while I've
got... geez, I dunno, but over 200k anyway. And I'm watching the way he
dives into some of the corners, and other times hanging way, way, way to the
outside. You know, that area where you might find a bit of gravel now & then
so you avoid it. And a few times I'm actually having a bit of trouble
keeping up with him, but figure no matter what, I'm riding behind him, so if
he does go down, I can keep any cars off his back.

He's taking different lines than I would, essentially testing the adhesion
of his tires in ways that I wouldn't. But he's doing so because, well, he
just doesn't know any better, because he hasn't become one with the pavement
yet. At least that's what I'm rationalizing. And yet I'm also thinking that
maybe I've just become too conservative over the years.

When I was racing, I would descend better for several months *after* a
crash, because there was that reassurance that hey, you survived it, no
biggie, things happen sometimes, don't sweat it too much. But then when I'd
go for a long period of time without hitting the pavement, I'd actually
start losing my nerve a bit and descend more slowly, thinking it was
something to be avoided at all costs, rather than, well, just one of those
things that happens sometimes.

Criteriums were always pretty easy for me; I figured that if someone else
could take that particular line, so could I. Never a big issue with nerves.
But there's something else going on when descending. Maybe there's too much
time to think? Sometimes it seems like you're totally on, and others, you
could swear your bike's handling screwy from a flat tire, but it's not.

If I've got a question here, I haven't quite figured out what it is. Maybe
just looking for what others have experienced themselves, and trying to work
through what to teach my kid about descending. I'd like him to have fun, but
wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits without losing as much skin as I
did growing up.

Thanks-

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

01-21-2007, 08:52 PM

In article <PdVsh.12240$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].prodigy.net> ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> If I've got a question here, I haven't quite figured out what it is. Maybe
> just looking for what others have experienced themselves, and trying to work
> through what to teach my kid about descending.

You've had a lot of time in which to ingrain habits.

When playing Texas Hold 'Em, I'll fold on a freshly-dealt
pocket with a low-number/high-number spread (unless maybe
there's an ace in there.) Ain't much I can do with one
of those, and no there's no sense throwin' good money after
bad. That's my habit. But apparently other people can make
it work for them.

Everybody's got a personal style.

> I'd like him to have fun, but
> wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits without losing as much skin as I
> did growing up.

What a mother hen :-) Hey, you're still here to]
talk about it, after all.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

"bagwell -- A region of debris at the intersection of two roads.
The debris is swept into a triangular shape by vehicles going
ahead, across, and turning right. Bagwells are a hazard to Roadies,
but are often mined by Freds for tools, coins, hardware, small parts,
and recyclable materials. Bagwells are named after Bryan Bagwell,
the Arizona, USA bicyclist and philosopher who first studied and
classified them."

With our local current snow melt-down, there are a lot
of snow bagwells around.

Actually, there's still a lot of leaf bagwells around,
'cuz the City didn't get around to cleaning those off
the streets back in November.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-21-2007, 10:07 PM

> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
> "bagwell -- A region of debris at the intersection of two roads.
> The debris is swept into a triangular shape by vehicles going
> ahead, across, and turning right. Bagwells are a hazard to Roadies,
> but are often mined by Freds for tools, coins, hardware, small parts,
> and recyclable materials. Bagwells are named after Bryan Bagwell,
> the Arizona, USA bicyclist and philosopher who first studied and
> classified them."
>
> With our local current snow melt-down, there are a lot
> of snow bagwells around.
>
> Actually, there's still a lot of leaf bagwells around,
> 'cuz the City didn't get around to cleaning those off
> the streets back in November.
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> Above address is just a spam midden.
> I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Funny you should mention that cause the OP made me think to the one time I
fell when I was a newish rider(around gr. 2 to 4)and that is what I slipped
on.
Been successfully riding without falling since then until I tried out spds.
I am an expert now. Never get hurt, just kind of slow motion fall on my
forearm like ballet. My first one ever gave me road rash. Ouch.

01-22-2007, 12:54 AM

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> If I've got a question here, I haven't quite figured out what it is. Maybe
> just looking for what others have experienced themselves, and trying to work
> through what to teach my kid about descending. I'd like him to have fun, but
> wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits without losing as much skin as I
> did growing up.
>

Would that all things in life you would like to impart your experience
to him about were as cut and dried as descending!

My guess is that he will listen to you about as much as he listens to
you on other topics, so the key is to decide what it is you want to
make sure he knows, and focus on that. Pick your battles in a way.
Maybe focus on teaching him to not be stupid and to think ahead and
forget about any fine techniques which he will probably figure out for
himself anyway. Keep him from having a dumb crash or getting hit by a
car and the rest is just details.

As a friend of mine once said, the secret to happiness in life is to
follow a few very basic rules. In his opinion trying to be more
specific is a waste of time. Here are the rules:

Don't rob a bank.
Don't marry a hooker.
Don't get a tatoo on your neck.

Have fun!

Joseph

01-22-2007, 05:04 AM

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
:: If I've got a question here, I haven't quite figured out what it is.
:: Maybe just looking for what others have experienced themselves, and
:: trying to work through what to teach my kid about descending. I'd
:: like him to have fun, but wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits
:: without losing as much skin as I did growing up.

IMO:

Don't rob him of the experience of learning. Let him learn as you did.
You're not him, you have other reasons that he doesn't have to worry about
going down on a descent.

01-22-2007, 07:22 AM

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

>.... I'd like him to have fun, but
> wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits without losing as much skin as I
> did growing up.
>
> Thanks-
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Eric Zabel addresses descending in Hell on Wheels by saying something
to the effect that as you get older you get softer and realize
descending fast is maybe not so smart.

Riding a bike is not the only subject that will make you feel this
way... I agree with the prior post about concentrating on the most
important lessons to try to keep him safe. The rest is his to learn
and yours to worry about. Fourteen - the fun is just beginning!

Wayne

01-22-2007, 07:23 AM

> As a friend of mine once said, the secret to happiness in life is to
> follow a few very basic rules. In his opinion trying to be more
> specific is a waste of time. Here are the rules:
>
> Don't rob a bank.
> Don't marry a hooker.
> Don't get a tatoo on your neck.

Hmm. I thought the three most-important things were what Homer had to tell
Bart before he thought he was going to die-

"Good idea, Boss"
"Cover for me"
"It was that way when I found it"

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1169459695.727785.102020@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> If I've got a question here, I haven't quite figured out what it is.
>> Maybe
>> just looking for what others have experienced themselves, and trying to
>> work
>> through what to teach my kid about descending. I'd like him to have fun,
>> but
>> wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits without losing as much skin as
>> I
>> did growing up.
>>
>
> Would that all things in life you would like to impart your experience
> to him about were as cut and dried as descending!
>
> My guess is that he will listen to you about as much as he listens to
> you on other topics, so the key is to decide what it is you want to
> make sure he knows, and focus on that. Pick your battles in a way.
> Maybe focus on teaching him to not be stupid and to think ahead and
> forget about any fine techniques which he will probably figure out for
> himself anyway. Keep him from having a dumb crash or getting hit by a
> car and the rest is just details.
>
> As a friend of mine once said, the secret to happiness in life is to
> follow a few very basic rules. In his opinion trying to be more
> specific is a waste of time. Here are the rules:
>
> Don't rob a bank.
> Don't marry a hooker.
> Don't get a tatoo on your neck.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Joseph
>

01-22-2007, 07:57 AM

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
{snip current sit.}

> If I've got a question here, I haven't quite figured out what it is.
> Maybe just looking for what others have experienced themselves, and
> trying to work through what to teach my kid about descending. I'd
> like him to have fun, but wouldn't mind if he could learn the limits
> without losing as much skin as I did growing up.

How about leading out and let him follow your line(s)?

He'll be spanking you soon enough; might as well keep him humble a /little/
longer!

01-22-2007, 08:03 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

> ... Keep him from having a dumb crash or getting hit by a
> car and the rest is just details.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about him sliding out
from excessive speed. The thing you should worry
about, at the risk of sounding grave, is his riding too
fast to stay in his lane and hitting a car head-on in
a blind curve. Explain to him how that has happened,
could happen to him, and the rest he'll have to find
out on his own.

You might also mention how his helmet, if he wears one,
is rated for a 14 mile-per-hour impact.

Robert

01-22-2007, 09:06 AM

Hi
A TV show where the cop mom was teaching her son/daughter what happens when
people use guns by making her/him look at a shooting victim in the hospital.
You might want to tell him what happens in courts when it is not your
fault but you die any way and nobody really cares about making the driver
pay be society is auto centric and that will not change any time soon. Find
good statistics about helmutted accidents and survival. You do not want
your head handed to you when your helmut works but your safe riding did not.
Do not race on the road. Sidewalk is okay if safer. Stay out of heavy
traffic.
In fact do not even ride the road on a main road until you are an adult.
I get treated like I am just a kid on a bike when riding at times and I have
been riding 45 years. They treat you like you are invisible.
Biking is suppose to be for your health and spirit. Make it a long one.

Regards
SN