Needed new bike design - Page 2 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

01-24-2007, 07:39 AM

On Jan 24, 1:30 am, Werehatrack <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58 -0800, "cmcanulty" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> may
> have said:
>
> >I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
> >salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
> >has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
> >maintenance chores for everyone.Huh? I have a bike like that here. It's about 30 years old, and ones
> like it were (and probably still are) as common in parts of Europe as
> pickup trucks are in Texas. Fully enclosed chain, gearhub, drum
> brakes; all of these things have been around since before WWII. The
> reason that you don't see them in the US very often is that most
> Americans are wimps when it comes to going places, particularly in bad
> weather; they drive *everywhere*, even to a store two blocks from
> where they live. Even a lot of otherwise avid cyclists won't ride in
> rain...and even fewer in snow.

The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
chainguard and not a case.

01-24-2007, 11:23 AM

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:49:33 -0800, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:

> On Jan 24, 9:01 am, "Rex Kerr" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> >Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
>> > be expensive.
>>
>> >[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
>
> What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
> weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
> bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?

No brakes, no gears, no mudguards (fenders), but even then without
a lot of aluminium components, which were /very/ expensive and unusual at
the time, I can't see them getting to 16lb. Must be a typo or complete hype.

Mike

01-24-2007, 11:44 AM

On 24 Jan 2007 20:23:20 GMT, Mike Causer
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:49:33 -0800, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wrote:
>
>> On Jan 24, 9:01 am, "Rex Kerr" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>>> >Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
>>> > be expensive.
>>>
>>> >[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
>>
>> What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
>> weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
>> bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?
>
>No brakes, no gears, no mudguards (fenders), but even then without
>a lot of aluminium components, which were /very/ expensive and unusual at
>the time, I can't see them getting to 16lb. Must be a typo or complete hype.
>
>
>Mike

Bamboo frames and laminated track wheel sets would get very close and
probably make it in small sizes. Bamboo was light and, when properly
constructed, strong enough for track and cinder track racing. Not
unknown in the 1890s on.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

01-24-2007, 12:27 PM

On 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55 -0800, "landotter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> may
have said:

>The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
>neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
>that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
>much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
>believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
>That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
>chainguard and not a case.

The regs were doubtless devised carefully; I have no doubt that the
limits were established at just the point at which the typical non-US
bike would be over the low-tariff limit. Of course, there are many
ways to address such an obstacle, but the obvious one in this instance
was to simply acknowledge that US riders didn't care about a full
chain case anyway, and delete the non-feature to save weight and cost.
(Not that it weighs that much, really; the one on my Puch isn't much
more than a pound.)

If full-case chains were in demand in the US market in the era when
bikes were still made here, rest assured that Murray, Huffy, Schwinn
and Columbia (among others) would have commonly provided them. That
they didn't is ample evidence of the absence of demand in the
marketplace...and it wasn't a matter of weight on a bike that already
weighed 40 lbs, as plenty of them did in those days.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

01-24-2007, 12:55 PM

On Jan 24, 3:27 pm, Werehatrack <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55 -0800, "landotter" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> may
> have said:
>
> >The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
> >neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
> >that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
> >much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
> >believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
> >That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
> >chainguard and not a case.The regs were doubtless devised carefully; I have no doubt that the
> limits were established at just the point at which the typical non-US
> bike would be over the low-tariff limit. Of course, there are many
> ways to address such an obstacle, but the obvious one in this instance
> was to simply acknowledge that US riders didn't care about a full
> chain case anyway, and delete the non-feature to save weight and cost.
> (Not that it weighs that much, really; the one on my Puch isn't much
> more than a pound.)
>
> If full-case chains were in demand in the US market in the era when
> bikes were still made here, rest assured that Murray, Huffy, Schwinn
> and Columbia (among others) would have commonly provided them. That
> they didn't is ample evidence of the absence of demand in the
> marketplace...and it wasn't a matter of weight on a bike that already
> weighed 40 lbs, as plenty of them did in those days.

Tut tut, you know as well as I, that the bicycle marketplace isn't so
much driven by the needs or demands of the consumer as by trends. :-P

The Swedes could have well done with closed chain cases as well,
considering the climate, but Swedish made bikes rarely had them. It was
as much a feature on British and Dutch roadsters as a styling element.
The Swedes had their own style, check out some of the neato full guards
here:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

01-24-2007, 03:56 PM

Could you at least send over the part and install it yourself then? If so
inclined.

SN

01-24-2007, 10:25 PM

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:56:09 GMT, "nash" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>
may have said:

>Could you at least send over the part and install it yourself then? If so
>inclined.

They're remarkably non-portable between frames.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

01-29-2007, 10:23 AM

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:44:54 -0500, Curtis L. Russell wrote:

> Bamboo frames and laminated track wheel sets would get very close and
> probably make it in small sizes. Bamboo was light and, when properly
> constructed, strong enough for track and cinder track racing. Not
> unknown in the 1890s on.

....or even today:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Matt O.