Re: Do bicycles and cars mix? - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

07-15-2003, 10:09 PM

Eric Sande wrote:

<< I didn't do it by assuming I had all the answers and that my reflexes
would get me through. Instead I read what material was out there and
accepted the advice, with a grain of salt, that other practicioners
could give me.
>>

By the material that was out there, you must mean Effective Cycling. What other
material is there?

<< And I ride, a lot. I still don't have all the answers. But what I do
have is an appreciation for what real systematic effort will yeild in
terms of traffic safety and efficiency, even under the worst possible
conditions.

And none of it is hack riding. It all buids towards a technique that
I can take anywhere and that continues to serve me well.
>>

I share your appreciation for systematic effort in traffic. But our systems are
totally different.

If you were to ride behind me for a while, you would probably assume I was
riding according to the ol' vehicular cycling principle. My style looks to the
untrained eye pretty much the same. But my attitude is fundamentally different.
V.C. riders ride in order to maximize visibility and to look predictable to
motorists. I ride to maximize space. I have given up on depending on motorists
for anything.

We might be riding the exact same line out in the lane, but you would ride it
to be seen, and I would ride it because I assume I'm *not* seen. Interesting,
eh? I love visibility as much as the next guy, but it's a pipe dream. The V.C.
rider's attitude of dependence on others and faith in traffic law principles is
what will put him in the hospital every now and again. To me, this is not an
acceptable risk.

VC is a good guideline for beginners who dont know their ass from a pothole.
For riders who are out in traffic all the time, it's not good enough.

Robert

07-16-2003, 11:12 PM

>If you were to ride behind me for a while, you would probably assume I
>was riding according to the ol' vehicular cycling principle. My style
>looks to the untrained eye pretty much the same. But my attitude is
>fundamentally different. V.C. riders ride in order to maximize
>visibility and to look predictable to motorists. I ride to maximize
>space. I have given up on depending on motorists for anything.

Interesting. I'm a fan of the "invisible bubble" theory myself.

That's the inverse of your "invisible cyclist" theory. See some of
my other posts on how to manage road space.

>We might be riding the exact same line out in the lane, but you would
>ride it to be seen, and I would ride it because I assume I'm *not* seen.
>Interesting, eh?

It comes down to how you define visibility. You seem to assume that
I actually ride in a trusting manner. You would be wrong. As I stated,
my motive is to get to point B, intact. And obey the traffic laws and
stay alive.

However I am not under any illusions as to how best to approach the
problem.

>I love visibility as much as the next guy, but it's a pipe dream. The
>V.C. rider's attitude of dependence on others and faith in traffic law
>principles is what will put him in the hospital every now and again.

I'm a street rider, not what you think of as a V.C. rider, I think.

I'm on record as saying EC is "a good start". Maybe we're closer on this
than you seem to think. I remain flexible.

>To me, this is not an acceptable risk.

Mastery of the traffic environment on a bicycle is not a passive process.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>cwhitman@texastwr.utaust in.edu__________

07-17-2003, 12:14 AM

<< Mastery of the traffic environment on a bicycle is not a passive process. >>

I agree 120%. My active process though is all vision and anticipation. As far
as controlling or influencing motor traffic goes, I find that I rarely need to.