Compare Cannondale RW 1000 vs. Trek 7700 - Page 5 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

04-15-2004, 11:28 PM

"David Kerber" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].cox.net. ..
> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...
>
> ...
>
> > Is speed and wind resistance the only reason to use drop bars? My
> > perception is that the weight distribution for drop bars is like
> > you're doing "push-ups" while riding whereas using bars that place
> > more weight on the seat like the ones I use keep me from placing too
> > much stress on my shoulders in exchange for possibly a sore butt on
> > long rides. Is this your impression?
>
> I'm not rocketman, but I'll jump in here: I like the many different
> hand positions that drop bars give me, whether or not I use the drops to
> get down out of the wind (though that certainly helps in many
> situations).
>
> I also second his suggestion that you at least consider touring bikes.
> They usually don't have suspensions, but they do have longer wheel bases
> and will accept larger tires, both of which make the ride more
> comfortable on rough roads, and heavier-duty frames so the rough roads
> aren't likely to damage them. My Fuji Touring comes with 32mm tires,
> with room for bigger ones (probably up to 35 or 38, though I haven't
> tried). It has drop bars, but they are mounted up fairly high (even
> with the seat by default), and has a threaded stem, so it's easy to
> raise them up even more if you want.

Exactly. David has made a good point which addresses your concerns about
handlebar height. *Any* bike - road, MTB, you name it - can have higher
handlebars if you want them. I ride my road racing bike with the top of the
handlebars even with the top of the saddle. That's about 3" higher than
most "racer" handlebar positions. Does it affect my speed? Not that you'd
notice. But what it does do is help distribute more weight off of my hands,
and gets my head up higher, with less neck and back strain. For my aging
body, that's just what the doctor ordered.

I also have a new "commuter" bike (essentially, a cyclocross/touring bike
with sloping top tube and MTB-style handelbars) that is a lot of fun. It
will be my loaded touring bike this summer. It's not nearly as fast as my
road bike, despite being fairly light, and having road bike wheels and
skinny-ish tires. Why is it slow? The wide, flat handlebars put me in a
more upright riding position, and I catch too much wind. Plus, the more
"open" riding position (not "tucked") is less powerful. Try it and you'll
see what I mean. There's a reason why road racing bikes are designed the
way that they are, and not longer and lower to "open up" the riding
position. I've ridden "open position" lowracer recumbents, and I couldn't
develop the same kind of speed that I can on an upright road racing bike -
even with the huge aero advantage of the lowracer design (almost lying flat
on your back, pedals out front).

Hope this is helpful info. Best of luck choosing your new bike. Try
everything you can, and buy the one that feels right. Don't look at the
price tags. Quality, fit and service are remembered long after price is
forgotten.

Rocketman

04-15-2004, 11:36 PM

"Steven M. Scharf" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:Ylxfc.11565$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earth link.net...
> "Warren Ginn" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google.c om...
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm looking to upgrade to one of these bikes. I would be doing my
> > first century on this. I like these hybrids because I think the
> > geometry and handlebar setups are more comfortable for me.
>
> IMVAIO these are not good choices for a century ride. There are several
road
> bikes available with the handlebar set-ups that would meet your desires.
>
> In the $1000 range, look at the Trek-Lemond Wayzata, and the Motobecane
Cafe
> Noir. Both of these bicycles have chro-moly frames, while both of the
models
> you mentioned are aluminum. Even the Motobocane Café Latte is a better
> choice than the Trek or Cannondale.
>
> You may want to add a headset extender (or Speedlifter), for a more
upright
> position.
>
> Suspension is unnecessary on road bikes, especially on century rides.
>
> Personally, I'd spend the $1000 on one Motobocane Café Latte ($550) or
> Bianchi Brava ($510), and one KHS Crest ST 2003 ($400). You'll get two
> mid-range bicycles, each well-suited to its particular purpose, rather
than
> one hybrid which is not well suited for either century rides or for
> off-road.
>
> Steve
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Well said, Steve. Personally, I'm not in favor of the "cafe racer" road
bikes with flat handlebars. I have one, well actually two, of them that I
built up from old road frames. They work fine for commuting; but they're
neither here nor there. Road bikes are great because they're light and aero.
Hybrids are great because they're decently fast, can carry loads, accept
fenders and racks, and are sturdy and built for rough roads and rough
service. They are *not* fast, however - even the slick ones like the Trek
7500FX or 7700FX (which are beautiful bikes nonetheless...) Take the same
rider and put 'em on a real road bike (like the Bianchi Brava - and
excellent value BTW) and that hybrid rider will gain noticeable top speed.
There are reasons for it. Weight is part of the equation; but there's much
more to it than weight, of course. Light wheels, skinny tires, closed
riding position, aero advantage, short chainstays - all of that and more
contribute to efficient, fast riding.

There's nothing like a real road racing bike. I recommend the Bianchi Brava
unconditionally as an excellent value (I own one of those, too...) It won't
hold you back in any way, and I think they still put fender and rack eyelets
on 'em.

Cheers,

Rocketman

04-15-2004, 11:36 PM

"Steven M. Scharf" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:Ylxfc.11565$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earth link.net...
> "Warren Ginn" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google.c om...
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm looking to upgrade to one of these bikes. I would be doing my
> > first century on this. I like these hybrids because I think the
> > geometry and handlebar setups are more comfortable for me.
>
> IMVAIO these are not good choices for a century ride. There are several
road
> bikes available with the handlebar set-ups that would meet your desires.
>
> In the $1000 range, look at the Trek-Lemond Wayzata, and the Motobecane
Cafe
> Noir. Both of these bicycles have chro-moly frames, while both of the
models
> you mentioned are aluminum. Even the Motobocane Café Latte is a better
> choice than the Trek or Cannondale.
>
> You may want to add a headset extender (or Speedlifter), for a more
upright
> position.
>
> Suspension is unnecessary on road bikes, especially on century rides.
>
> Personally, I'd spend the $1000 on one Motobocane Café Latte ($550) or
> Bianchi Brava ($510), and one KHS Crest ST 2003 ($400). You'll get two
> mid-range bicycles, each well-suited to its particular purpose, rather
than
> one hybrid which is not well suited for either century rides or for
> off-road.
>
> Steve
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Well said, Steve. Personally, I'm not in favor of the "cafe racer" road
bikes with flat handlebars. I have one, well actually two, of them that I
built up from old road frames. They work fine for commuting; but they're
neither here nor there. Road bikes are great because they're light and aero.
Hybrids are great because they're decently fast, can carry loads, accept
fenders and racks, and are sturdy and built for rough roads and rough
service. They are *not* fast, however - even the slick ones like the Trek
7500FX or 7700FX (which are beautiful bikes nonetheless...) Take the same
rider and put 'em on a real road bike (like the Bianchi Brava - and
excellent value BTW) and that hybrid rider will gain noticeable top speed.
There are reasons for it. Weight is part of the equation; but there's much
more to it than weight, of course. Light wheels, skinny tires, closed
riding position, aero advantage, short chainstays - all of that and more
contribute to efficient, fast riding.

There's nothing like a real road racing bike. I recommend the Bianchi Brava
unconditionally as an excellent value (I own one of those, too...) It won't
hold you back in any way, and I think they still put fender and rack eyelets
on 'em.

Cheers,

Rocketman

04-15-2004, 11:36 PM

"Steven M. Scharf" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:Ylxfc.11565$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earth link.net...
> "Warren Ginn" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google.c om...
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm looking to upgrade to one of these bikes. I would be doing my
> > first century on this. I like these hybrids because I think the
> > geometry and handlebar setups are more comfortable for me.
>
> IMVAIO these are not good choices for a century ride. There are several
road
> bikes available with the handlebar set-ups that would meet your desires.
>
> In the $1000 range, look at the Trek-Lemond Wayzata, and the Motobecane
Cafe
> Noir. Both of these bicycles have chro-moly frames, while both of the
models
> you mentioned are aluminum. Even the Motobocane Café Latte is a better
> choice than the Trek or Cannondale.
>
> You may want to add a headset extender (or Speedlifter), for a more
upright
> position.
>
> Suspension is unnecessary on road bikes, especially on century rides.
>
> Personally, I'd spend the $1000 on one Motobocane Café Latte ($550) or
> Bianchi Brava ($510), and one KHS Crest ST 2003 ($400). You'll get two
> mid-range bicycles, each well-suited to its particular purpose, rather
than
> one hybrid which is not well suited for either century rides or for
> off-road.
>
> Steve
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Well said, Steve. Personally, I'm not in favor of the "cafe racer" road
bikes with flat handlebars. I have one, well actually two, of them that I
built up from old road frames. They work fine for commuting; but they're
neither here nor there. Road bikes are great because they're light and aero.
Hybrids are great because they're decently fast, can carry loads, accept
fenders and racks, and are sturdy and built for rough roads and rough
service. They are *not* fast, however - even the slick ones like the Trek
7500FX or 7700FX (which are beautiful bikes nonetheless...) Take the same
rider and put 'em on a real road bike (like the Bianchi Brava - and
excellent value BTW) and that hybrid rider will gain noticeable top speed.
There are reasons for it. Weight is part of the equation; but there's much
more to it than weight, of course. Light wheels, skinny tires, closed
riding position, aero advantage, short chainstays - all of that and more
contribute to efficient, fast riding.

There's nothing like a real road racing bike. I recommend the Bianchi Brava
unconditionally as an excellent value (I own one of those, too...) It won't
hold you back in any way, and I think they still put fender and rack eyelets
on 'em.

Cheers,

Rocketman

04-15-2004, 11:36 PM

"Steven M. Scharf" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:Ylxfc.11565$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earth link.net...
> "Warren Ginn" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google.c om...
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm looking to upgrade to one of these bikes. I would be doing my
> > first century on this. I like these hybrids because I think the
> > geometry and handlebar setups are more comfortable for me.
>
> IMVAIO these are not good choices for a century ride. There are several
road
> bikes available with the handlebar set-ups that would meet your desires.
>
> In the $1000 range, look at the Trek-Lemond Wayzata, and the Motobecane
Cafe
> Noir. Both of these bicycles have chro-moly frames, while both of the
models
> you mentioned are aluminum. Even the Motobocane Café Latte is a better
> choice than the Trek or Cannondale.
>
> You may want to add a headset extender (or Speedlifter), for a more
upright
> position.
>
> Suspension is unnecessary on road bikes, especially on century rides.
>
> Personally, I'd spend the $1000 on one Motobocane Café Latte ($550) or
> Bianchi Brava ($510), and one KHS Crest ST 2003 ($400). You'll get two
> mid-range bicycles, each well-suited to its particular purpose, rather
than
> one hybrid which is not well suited for either century rides or for
> off-road.
>
> Steve
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Well said, Steve. Personally, I'm not in favor of the "cafe racer" road
bikes with flat handlebars. I have one, well actually two, of them that I
built up from old road frames. They work fine for commuting; but they're
neither here nor there. Road bikes are great because they're light and aero.
Hybrids are great because they're decently fast, can carry loads, accept
fenders and racks, and are sturdy and built for rough roads and rough
service. They are *not* fast, however - even the slick ones like the Trek
7500FX or 7700FX (which are beautiful bikes nonetheless...) Take the same
rider and put 'em on a real road bike (like the Bianchi Brava - and
excellent value BTW) and that hybrid rider will gain noticeable top speed.
There are reasons for it. Weight is part of the equation; but there's much
more to it than weight, of course. Light wheels, skinny tires, closed
riding position, aero advantage, short chainstays - all of that and more
contribute to efficient, fast riding.

There's nothing like a real road racing bike. I recommend the Bianchi Brava
unconditionally as an excellent value (I own one of those, too...) It won't
hold you back in any way, and I think they still put fender and rack eyelets
on 'em.

Cheers,

Rocketman

04-16-2004, 07:58 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Art) wrote in message news:<bbd762a7.0404151702.24d391ae@posting.google. com>...
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Warren Ginn) wrote in message news:<27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google. com>...
> > I think I like the Trek better except for the fact that you can't lock
> > out the front suspension. Any opinions about these component sets or
> > the bikes in general?
> >
> >
> I've been commuting to work (15 miles one-way) on my 7700 for the last
> few weeks. It's a terrific real world bike, but as has been pointed
> out by others, it's not a road bike. If speed's your thing, this
> isn't your bike. Its weight will keep you from the head of the pack.
> But with the Kevlar belted wide tires, light suspension fork and wide
> gearing, you'll be able to go places no roadie would ever tread. This
> isn't meant as a "my bike is better than your bike" rant, just my
> opinion. One thing that I did get rid of on the 7700 was the
> suspension seat post. Just didn't seem necessary.
> Good luck,
> Art

Hey Art,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you like the 7700. One of the
reasons I have been looking at it is for the wide gear range, the
sturdy frame and tires that are less likely to get flats (which I
notice a lot of these road bikes on the side of the road changing
tires...).

By the way, did your bike come with the thinner Shimano HG53 chain? I
heard that there used to be some problems with chatter on the
crossover gears and that it was fixed by using the narrower chain.
What's your experience?

I'm not interested in racing, I just want to keep up. On the bike I
have now (an old Giant Iguana), I have really good granny gears and
let me tell you, they have saved my ass more than a few times when
humping my way through Palisades Park in New Jersey (major hills).
It's also better on the parts of the ride where I hit potholes and
gravel (I wlways feel thankfull for my old bike at times like that).

But I wanted a little more top end speed on the flats and the I belive
I will get that with the 11-32 9-spd and the 48/38/28 front chainring
(although I wouldn't mind if the 48 was a 52). If I could cruise
comfortably on the flats at about 18-21 mph, that would be good. But
I'm willing to trade a little speed for versatility.

I don't think I want the suspension even though my chiropractor told
me I should because I have slight pinch in my right shoulder. He said
that I could jam it again and that's why I prefer more of my weight in
the seat to take the load off my shoulders and neck. If that wasn't an
issue, I would have already gotten a good touring bike, but I believe
that a MTB-type setup would be better for me.

I even looked at using a drop bar with aero bar clip-ons to allow me
to lift me up and stretch out. But I don't think that would be a good
idea. I prefer the MTB-type gear levers and brake handles.

Thanks to everyone's comments. I'll keep you up to date with what I
choose.

Warren

04-16-2004, 07:58 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Art) wrote in message news:<bbd762a7.0404151702.24d391ae@posting.google. com>...
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Warren Ginn) wrote in message news:<27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google. com>...
> > I think I like the Trek better except for the fact that you can't lock
> > out the front suspension. Any opinions about these component sets or
> > the bikes in general?
> >
> >
> I've been commuting to work (15 miles one-way) on my 7700 for the last
> few weeks. It's a terrific real world bike, but as has been pointed
> out by others, it's not a road bike. If speed's your thing, this
> isn't your bike. Its weight will keep you from the head of the pack.
> But with the Kevlar belted wide tires, light suspension fork and wide
> gearing, you'll be able to go places no roadie would ever tread. This
> isn't meant as a "my bike is better than your bike" rant, just my
> opinion. One thing that I did get rid of on the 7700 was the
> suspension seat post. Just didn't seem necessary.
> Good luck,
> Art

Hey Art,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you like the 7700. One of the
reasons I have been looking at it is for the wide gear range, the
sturdy frame and tires that are less likely to get flats (which I
notice a lot of these road bikes on the side of the road changing
tires...).

By the way, did your bike come with the thinner Shimano HG53 chain? I
heard that there used to be some problems with chatter on the
crossover gears and that it was fixed by using the narrower chain.
What's your experience?

I'm not interested in racing, I just want to keep up. On the bike I
have now (an old Giant Iguana), I have really good granny gears and
let me tell you, they have saved my ass more than a few times when
humping my way through Palisades Park in New Jersey (major hills).
It's also better on the parts of the ride where I hit potholes and
gravel (I wlways feel thankfull for my old bike at times like that).

But I wanted a little more top end speed on the flats and the I belive
I will get that with the 11-32 9-spd and the 48/38/28 front chainring
(although I wouldn't mind if the 48 was a 52). If I could cruise
comfortably on the flats at about 18-21 mph, that would be good. But
I'm willing to trade a little speed for versatility.

I don't think I want the suspension even though my chiropractor told
me I should because I have slight pinch in my right shoulder. He said
that I could jam it again and that's why I prefer more of my weight in
the seat to take the load off my shoulders and neck. If that wasn't an
issue, I would have already gotten a good touring bike, but I believe
that a MTB-type setup would be better for me.

I even looked at using a drop bar with aero bar clip-ons to allow me
to lift me up and stretch out. But I don't think that would be a good
idea. I prefer the MTB-type gear levers and brake handles.

Thanks to everyone's comments. I'll keep you up to date with what I
choose.

Warren

04-16-2004, 07:58 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Art) wrote in message news:<bbd762a7.0404151702.24d391ae@posting.google. com>...
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Warren Ginn) wrote in message news:<27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google. com>...
> > I think I like the Trek better except for the fact that you can't lock
> > out the front suspension. Any opinions about these component sets or
> > the bikes in general?
> >
> >
> I've been commuting to work (15 miles one-way) on my 7700 for the last
> few weeks. It's a terrific real world bike, but as has been pointed
> out by others, it's not a road bike. If speed's your thing, this
> isn't your bike. Its weight will keep you from the head of the pack.
> But with the Kevlar belted wide tires, light suspension fork and wide
> gearing, you'll be able to go places no roadie would ever tread. This
> isn't meant as a "my bike is better than your bike" rant, just my
> opinion. One thing that I did get rid of on the 7700 was the
> suspension seat post. Just didn't seem necessary.
> Good luck,
> Art

Hey Art,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you like the 7700. One of the
reasons I have been looking at it is for the wide gear range, the
sturdy frame and tires that are less likely to get flats (which I
notice a lot of these road bikes on the side of the road changing
tires...).

By the way, did your bike come with the thinner Shimano HG53 chain? I
heard that there used to be some problems with chatter on the
crossover gears and that it was fixed by using the narrower chain.
What's your experience?

I'm not interested in racing, I just want to keep up. On the bike I
have now (an old Giant Iguana), I have really good granny gears and
let me tell you, they have saved my ass more than a few times when
humping my way through Palisades Park in New Jersey (major hills).
It's also better on the parts of the ride where I hit potholes and
gravel (I wlways feel thankfull for my old bike at times like that).

But I wanted a little more top end speed on the flats and the I belive
I will get that with the 11-32 9-spd and the 48/38/28 front chainring
(although I wouldn't mind if the 48 was a 52). If I could cruise
comfortably on the flats at about 18-21 mph, that would be good. But
I'm willing to trade a little speed for versatility.

I don't think I want the suspension even though my chiropractor told
me I should because I have slight pinch in my right shoulder. He said
that I could jam it again and that's why I prefer more of my weight in
the seat to take the load off my shoulders and neck. If that wasn't an
issue, I would have already gotten a good touring bike, but I believe
that a MTB-type setup would be better for me.

I even looked at using a drop bar with aero bar clip-ons to allow me
to lift me up and stretch out. But I don't think that would be a good
idea. I prefer the MTB-type gear levers and brake handles.

Thanks to everyone's comments. I'll keep you up to date with what I
choose.

Warren

04-16-2004, 07:58 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Art) wrote in message news:<bbd762a7.0404151702.24d391ae@posting.google. com>...
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Warren Ginn) wrote in message news:<27f93351.0404141124.42798ee2@posting.google. com>...
> > I think I like the Trek better except for the fact that you can't lock
> > out the front suspension. Any opinions about these component sets or
> > the bikes in general?
> >
> >
> I've been commuting to work (15 miles one-way) on my 7700 for the last
> few weeks. It's a terrific real world bike, but as has been pointed
> out by others, it's not a road bike. If speed's your thing, this
> isn't your bike. Its weight will keep you from the head of the pack.
> But with the Kevlar belted wide tires, light suspension fork and wide
> gearing, you'll be able to go places no roadie would ever tread. This
> isn't meant as a "my bike is better than your bike" rant, just my
> opinion. One thing that I did get rid of on the 7700 was the
> suspension seat post. Just didn't seem necessary.
> Good luck,
> Art

Hey Art,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you like the 7700. One of the
reasons I have been looking at it is for the wide gear range, the
sturdy frame and tires that are less likely to get flats (which I
notice a lot of these road bikes on the side of the road changing
tires...).

By the way, did your bike come with the thinner Shimano HG53 chain? I
heard that there used to be some problems with chatter on the
crossover gears and that it was fixed by using the narrower chain.
What's your experience?

I'm not interested in racing, I just want to keep up. On the bike I
have now (an old Giant Iguana), I have really good granny gears and
let me tell you, they have saved my ass more than a few times when
humping my way through Palisades Park in New Jersey (major hills).
It's also better on the parts of the ride where I hit potholes and
gravel (I wlways feel thankfull for my old bike at times like that).

But I wanted a little more top end speed on the flats and the I belive
I will get that with the 11-32 9-spd and the 48/38/28 front chainring
(although I wouldn't mind if the 48 was a 52). If I could cruise
comfortably on the flats at about 18-21 mph, that would be good. But
I'm willing to trade a little speed for versatility.

I don't think I want the suspension even though my chiropractor told
me I should because I have slight pinch in my right shoulder. He said
that I could jam it again and that's why I prefer more of my weight in
the seat to take the load off my shoulders and neck. If that wasn't an
issue, I would have already gotten a good touring bike, but I believe
that a MTB-type setup would be better for me.

I even looked at using a drop bar with aero bar clip-ons to allow me
to lift me up and stretch out. But I don't think that would be a good
idea. I prefer the MTB-type gear levers and brake handles.

Thanks to everyone's comments. I'll keep you up to date with what I
choose.

Warren

04-19-2004, 07:32 AM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Warren Ginn) wrote in message
>
> By the way, did your bike come with the thinner Shimano HG53 chain? I
> heard that there used to be some problems with chatter on the
> crossover gears and that it was fixed by using the narrower chain.
> What's your experience?

Warren,
Frankly, I'm not sure what type of chain came with the bike. It could
have been the HG93, but can't swear by it. Regardless, I've not had
any problems with chattering in any of the gears. Except for the
humming of the tires on the road, the bike is as quiet as you would
expect a bike to be.

Art