TIG welded Columbus Zona versus lugged Columbus butted (?SPX?) - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

07-23-2003, 04:04 PM

I am suddenly without a rideable bike (Mikado / ProCycle POS frame
broke, they don't respond to Emails, they don't have a listed phone or
fax number)

A local dealer has in stock a 4 year old unused Marinoni Turismo -
lugged Columbus tubes, threaded headset versus the new model with TIG
welded Coumbus Zona (non-round) and threadless headset.

Intuitively a lugged frame can be repaired, but that assumes
availability of suitable tubing. Quill stem seems to offer easier
minor adjustments to height, without worrying about tensioning the
headset (perhaps I misunderstand how threadless works ?). Again, quill
stems are harder to find.

Since there's no discount on the older frame, I'd be inclined to buy
the later version EXCEPT that there's an 8 week wait.

This is NOT an inexpensive frame. Any comments ?

07-24-2003, 05:11 PM

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
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In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >, mark
freedman <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

> I am suddenly without a rideable bike (Mikado / ProCycle POS frame
> broke, they don't respond to Emails, they don't have a listed phone or
> fax number)
>
> A local dealer has in stock a 4 year old unused Marinoni Turismo -
> lugged Columbus tubes, threaded headset versus the new model with TIG
> welded Coumbus Zona (non-round) and threadless headset.

One of my bikes is of butted Columbus "Brain" tubing. I believe that's
one of the lower quality tubesets in the Columbus hierarchy, but I
*absolutely* love the ride it delivers. The frameset (bought from
bicycle specialities in Toronto) features touring geometry: long
chainstays, relaxed headtube angle and long wheelbase. I suspect that
the geometry has more to do with the ride quality than the grade of
Columbus tubing utilized.

Is the geometry similar in the two versions of Turismos your
considering?
>
> Intuitively a lugged frame can be repaired, but that assumes
> availability of suitable tubing. Quill stem seems to offer easier
> minor adjustments to height, without worrying about tensioning the
> headset (perhaps I misunderstand how threadless works ?). Again, quill
> stems are harder to find.

I've often heard that claim: quill stems are difficult to find. Not so.
Sure they aren't prevalent in the same quantities as threadless
stems/headsets but I"ve never had difficulty in finding quills. Harder
to find, yes. Hard to find, no.

And what they offer in adjustability is *definitely* an asset. Both
threadless and threaded systems offer adjustability, but as you alluded
to, a minor adjustment on a threadless system necessitates shuffling of
spacers and readjustment of headset preload. A major adjustment of a
threadless HS may not be possible without new forks (if the steerer
tube is cut too short and you'd like to raise the bars). But that is,
admittedly, a drastic scenario. I'd opt for the threaded headset.

Aesthetically I prefer the lugged framesets made from round tubes.
Leaving practical considerations aside, does one of the Turismo models
"look" better to you?
>
> Since there's no discount on the older frame, I'd be inclined to buy
> the later version EXCEPT that there's an 8 week wait.
>
> This is NOT an inexpensive frame. Any comments ?

I like the Turismo frameset. I was seriously considering buying one
several years ago. An extremely versatile bike. It's a good value: you
can use it for touring, training, commuting.... And Marinoni has a
reputation for quality. Whichever model you choose, once setup
properly, the bike should offer years of enjoyment.

Incidentally, if I remember correctly, the price quoted at the time for
a 56/57 cm Turismo with headset and stem was in the neighborhood of
$750 Cdn.

Luke

07-25-2003, 04:06 AM

I can't believe the shop has a 4 year-old frame that they won't discount 15
% or so. Perhaps you can push them a bit harder. Tell them that you'll take
the newer model and let them keep the other frame for another 4 years unless
they can provide you with a good reason not to. If you haven't been talking
directly to the owner, then make sure you do because underlings don't
usually have the authority.
Blake

"mark freedman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:4534d723.0307231604.583c05c8@posting.google.c om...
> I am suddenly without a rideable bike (Mikado / ProCycle POS frame
> broke, they don't respond to Emails, they don't have a listed phone or
> fax number)
>
> A local dealer has in stock a 4 year old unused Marinoni Turismo -
> lugged Columbus tubes, threaded headset versus the new model with TIG
> welded Coumbus Zona (non-round) and threadless headset.
>
> Intuitively a lugged frame can be repaired, but that assumes
> availability of suitable tubing. Quill stem seems to offer easier
> minor adjustments to height, without worrying about tensioning the
> headset (perhaps I misunderstand how threadless works ?). Again, quill
> stems are harder to find.
>
> Since there's no discount on the older frame, I'd be inclined to buy
> the later version EXCEPT that there's an 8 week wait.
>
> This is NOT an inexpensive frame. Any comments ?

07-25-2003, 04:44 AM

I have a lugged Columbus Brain from Marinoni too. Brain was never top of the
line in terms of racing tubesets, but it's probably ideal for anyone who
isn't racing with it, due to the more perfect balance of weight vs strength.
This is because it really just classic Columbus SL, the equivalent of
Reynolds 531 (except it has a more advanced butting pattern). For the
classic quality steel frame ride, it's hard to beat. It's not bottom of the
line either, as there were at least two lower Columbus tubesets in the
hierarchy. Marinoni has switched its production to TIG welding, mainly
aluminum, but some Columbus steel. However, I believe they still produce
custom lugged, round tube steel frames for those who want them (the
cognoscenti among us

Marinoni used Brain tubing for it's lighter sports touring bikes (Ciclo).
The Turismo had the heavier and stronger SPX. This all sounds like ancient
history already, but this was just a few years ago (not even five years).
Why people go for the cheaper methods of building frames now is beyond my
understanding, but I guess Marinoni had to stay competitive with all the
other lemmings.

Personally, I would think a lugged Turismo is far more desirable than a
TIG-welded one.

Pierre

"Luke" <luca@ca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:240720032111595295%luca@ca.inter.net...
> [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
> In article <4534d723.0307231604.583c05c8@posting.google.com >, mark
> freedman <cd260ca@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > I am suddenly without a rideable bike (Mikado / ProCycle POS frame
> > broke, they don't respond to Emails, they don't have a listed phone or
> > fax number)
> >
> > A local dealer has in stock a 4 year old unused Marinoni Turismo -
> > lugged Columbus tubes, threaded headset versus the new model with TIG
> > welded Coumbus Zona (non-round) and threadless headset.
>
> One of my bikes is of butted Columbus "Brain" tubing. I believe that's
> one of the lower quality tubesets in the Columbus hierarchy, but I
> *absolutely* love the ride it delivers. The frameset (bought from
> bicycle specialities in Toronto) features touring geometry: long
> chainstays, relaxed headtube angle and long wheelbase. I suspect that
> the geometry has more to do with the ride quality than the grade of
> Columbus tubing utilized.
>
> Is the geometry similar in the two versions of Turismos your
> considering?
> >
> > Intuitively a lugged frame can be repaired, but that assumes
> > availability of suitable tubing. Quill stem seems to offer easier
> > minor adjustments to height, without worrying about tensioning the
> > headset (perhaps I misunderstand how threadless works ?). Again, quill
> > stems are harder to find.
>
> I've often heard that claim: quill stems are difficult to find. Not so.
> Sure they aren't prevalent in the same quantities as threadless
> stems/headsets but I"ve never had difficulty in finding quills. Harder
> to find, yes. Hard to find, no.
>
> And what they offer in adjustability is *definitely* an asset. Both
> threadless and threaded systems offer adjustability, but as you alluded
> to, a minor adjustment on a threadless system necessitates shuffling of
> spacers and readjustment of headset preload. A major adjustment of a
> threadless HS may not be possible without new forks (if the steerer
> tube is cut too short and you'd like to raise the bars). But that is,
> admittedly, a drastic scenario. I'd opt for the threaded headset.
>
> Aesthetically I prefer the lugged framesets made from round tubes.
> Leaving practical considerations aside, does one of the Turismo models
> "look" better to you?
> >
> > Since there's no discount on the older frame, I'd be inclined to buy
> > the later version EXCEPT that there's an 8 week wait.
> >
> > This is NOT an inexpensive frame. Any comments ?
>
> I like the Turismo frameset. I was seriously considering buying one
> several years ago. An extremely versatile bike. It's a good value: you
> can use it for touring, training, commuting.... And Marinoni has a
> reputation for quality. Whichever model you choose, once setup
> properly, the bike should offer years of enjoyment.
>
> Incidentally, if I remember correctly, the price quoted at the time for
> a 56/57 cm Turismo with headset and stem was in the neighborhood of
> $750 Cdn.
>
> Luke

07-27-2003, 06:32 AM

Luke wrote:
> ...
> One of my bikes is of butted Columbus "Brain" tubing. I believe that's
> one of the lower quality tubesets in the Columbus hierarchy, but I
> *absolutely* love the ride it delivers. The frameset (bought from
> bicycle specialities in Toronto) features touring geometry: long
> chainstays, relaxed headtube angle and long wheelbase. I suspect that
> the geometry has more to do with the ride quality than the grade of
> Columbus tubing utilized....

The different grades of tubing will vary in hardness, ductility,
fracture toughness, fatigue resistance, and tensile strength, but WILL
NOT significantly vary in elastic modulus (true of all steels).
Therefore, any differences in ride (assuming the same frame geometry)
will be due to differences in tube diameters and/or wall thickness.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)