Re: Reduced sidewalk riding fine & cycle paths - Page 3 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

05-10-2004, 12:00 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote :
> I dunno. A $50 fine can still sting. But the ostensible reason
> (the roads getting more dangerous) doesn't quite sound 'right'.

Exactly - the appropriate response would be to hike the fines for
speeding, red light running, or aggressive driving.

-Steve

05-10-2004, 06:00 PM

10 May 2004 12:00:10 -0700,
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Steven Goodridge) wrote:

>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote :
>> I dunno. A $50 fine can still sting. But the ostensible reason
>> (the roads getting more dangerous) doesn't quite sound 'right'.
>
>Exactly - the appropriate response would be to hike the fines for
>speeding, red light running, or aggressive driving.
>
Increased enforcement would do more than raising a fine no one pays
because they're not cited for the infraction.
--
zk

05-10-2004, 06:00 PM

10 May 2004 12:00:10 -0700,
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Steven Goodridge) wrote:

>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote :
>> I dunno. A $50 fine can still sting. But the ostensible reason
>> (the roads getting more dangerous) doesn't quite sound 'right'.
>
>Exactly - the appropriate response would be to hike the fines for
>speeding, red light running, or aggressive driving.
>
Increased enforcement would do more than raising a fine no one pays
because they're not cited for the infraction.
--
zk

05-10-2004, 06:00 PM

10 May 2004 12:00:10 -0700,
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Steven Goodridge) wrote:

>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote :
>> I dunno. A $50 fine can still sting. But the ostensible reason
>> (the roads getting more dangerous) doesn't quite sound 'right'.
>
>Exactly - the appropriate response would be to hike the fines for
>speeding, red light running, or aggressive driving.
>
Increased enforcement would do more than raising a fine no one pays
because they're not cited for the infraction.
--
zk

05-10-2004, 06:00 PM

10 May 2004 12:00:10 -0700,
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Steven Goodridge) wrote:

>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote :
>> I dunno. A $50 fine can still sting. But the ostensible reason
>> (the roads getting more dangerous) doesn't quite sound 'right'.
>
>Exactly - the appropriate response would be to hike the fines for
>speeding, red light running, or aggressive driving.
>
Increased enforcement would do more than raising a fine no one pays
because they're not cited for the infraction.
--
zk

05-10-2004, 06:00 PM

10 May 2004 12:00:10 -0700,
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Steven Goodridge) wrote:

>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote :
>> I dunno. A $50 fine can still sting. But the ostensible reason
>> (the roads getting more dangerous) doesn't quite sound 'right'.
>
>Exactly - the appropriate response would be to hike the fines for
>speeding, red light running, or aggressive driving.
>
Increased enforcement would do more than raising a fine no one pays
because they're not cited for the infraction.
--
zk

05-12-2004, 04:58 PM

On Sat, 08 May 2004 19:22:16 GMT, Chris B.
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:05:27 GMT, "Doug Purdy" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>Check out Jan Wong's article "All thos cycle paths" in today's Globe and
>>Mail Toronto section page M3 or at
>>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
>Try:
><http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040508/WONG08//?query=jan+wong>
>
>>"At City Hall, a volunteer committee of 20 activist citizens views every
>>issue through the mud-spattered lens of an oppressed cyclist. Their job
>>is to develop policy and advise city staff and elected officials on
>>cycling matters. Last month, the committee virtually ensured that city
>>council will vote to slash the fine for sidewalk cycling to $50 from
>>$90. The rationale: The roads are getting too dangerous.
>>
>>"The pedestrian committee, a kinder, gentler group, actually supported
>>the cycling committee in cutting the fine. Asked why, Rita Brooks, the
>>pedestrian co-chairwoman and a non-cyclist, hesitated. "It was sort of
>>the lower-income argument. But that's not very good, is it?"
>>
>>"The cycling committee holds sway over a $72-million bike plan that will
>>change the face of the city. That includes doubling the number of
>>cyclists in Toronto within 10 years by ensuring everyone lives within a
>>five-minute ride of a network of 1,000 kilometres of bike paths"
>
>A self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
>More evidence that the greatest threat to people who wish to ride
>their bikes to go somewhere or who wish to ride above 5 km/h and don't
>desire dodging and weaving around 3 year olds on tricycles is the
>so-called Cycling Advocate.

Most cyclists in Toronto, who are not riding on the paths are riding
in traffic. _However_, (and I say that knowingly - I live here, and
get around in the city as a pedestrian, a cyclist and a driver)
Canadians, particularly those in southern Ontario, are much more
aggressive on the road than fifteen years ago. I'm sure that visiting
Americans have noticed our free interpretation of speed limits.

There are sections of suburbia, both in city limits and in the
surrounding muncipalities where I would not ride on the road in peak
volumne traffic. The roads are designed (and used) as six lane high
speed arterials - there is just too much difference in speed to bike
safely. I'm thinking of Dixie Road in Mississauga, from Eglington
north toe the 401 and north of the 401 to past Derry Rd. Cars
routinely travel at 100kph,, and there is no shoulder, just curbs. I'm
also thinking of the Queensway from Kipling to Dixie Rd. Massive
volumne, a highway interchange with a 400 series highway, a
destination shopping mall and a mushrooming group of outlet malls.
Lots of cars travelling at highspeed, then braking and turning.

On these sections, I soemtimes ride on the sidewalk. It's just safer.
I'd rather not bounce a hundred metres down the road. Pedestrian
traffic is very light.

Downtown, OTOH, is a different story. Due to daytime congestion, bikes
can move faster than cars in many neighbourhoods. Here, they belong on
the road and only the road. In fact, if I'm riding the trails on the
weekend, I make a point of doing so early in the morning, before the
majority of the dog walkers and families with kids are out. The parks
get heavily used after 10 am.

Shiirley Hicks
Toronto, Ontario

05-12-2004, 04:58 PM

On Sat, 08 May 2004 19:22:16 GMT, Chris B.
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:05:27 GMT, "Doug Purdy" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>Check out Jan Wong's article "All thos cycle paths" in today's Globe and
>>Mail Toronto section page M3 or at
>>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
>Try:
><http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040508/WONG08//?query=jan+wong>
>
>>"At City Hall, a volunteer committee of 20 activist citizens views every
>>issue through the mud-spattered lens of an oppressed cyclist. Their job
>>is to develop policy and advise city staff and elected officials on
>>cycling matters. Last month, the committee virtually ensured that city
>>council will vote to slash the fine for sidewalk cycling to $50 from
>>$90. The rationale: The roads are getting too dangerous.
>>
>>"The pedestrian committee, a kinder, gentler group, actually supported
>>the cycling committee in cutting the fine. Asked why, Rita Brooks, the
>>pedestrian co-chairwoman and a non-cyclist, hesitated. "It was sort of
>>the lower-income argument. But that's not very good, is it?"
>>
>>"The cycling committee holds sway over a $72-million bike plan that will
>>change the face of the city. That includes doubling the number of
>>cyclists in Toronto within 10 years by ensuring everyone lives within a
>>five-minute ride of a network of 1,000 kilometres of bike paths"
>
>A self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
>More evidence that the greatest threat to people who wish to ride
>their bikes to go somewhere or who wish to ride above 5 km/h and don't
>desire dodging and weaving around 3 year olds on tricycles is the
>so-called Cycling Advocate.

Most cyclists in Toronto, who are not riding on the paths are riding
in traffic. _However_, (and I say that knowingly - I live here, and
get around in the city as a pedestrian, a cyclist and a driver)
Canadians, particularly those in southern Ontario, are much more
aggressive on the road than fifteen years ago. I'm sure that visiting
Americans have noticed our free interpretation of speed limits.

There are sections of suburbia, both in city limits and in the
surrounding muncipalities where I would not ride on the road in peak
volumne traffic. The roads are designed (and used) as six lane high
speed arterials - there is just too much difference in speed to bike
safely. I'm thinking of Dixie Road in Mississauga, from Eglington
north toe the 401 and north of the 401 to past Derry Rd. Cars
routinely travel at 100kph,, and there is no shoulder, just curbs. I'm
also thinking of the Queensway from Kipling to Dixie Rd. Massive
volumne, a highway interchange with a 400 series highway, a
destination shopping mall and a mushrooming group of outlet malls.
Lots of cars travelling at highspeed, then braking and turning.

On these sections, I soemtimes ride on the sidewalk. It's just safer.
I'd rather not bounce a hundred metres down the road. Pedestrian
traffic is very light.

Downtown, OTOH, is a different story. Due to daytime congestion, bikes
can move faster than cars in many neighbourhoods. Here, they belong on
the road and only the road. In fact, if I'm riding the trails on the
weekend, I make a point of doing so early in the morning, before the
majority of the dog walkers and families with kids are out. The parks
get heavily used after 10 am.

Shiirley Hicks
Toronto, Ontario

05-12-2004, 04:58 PM

On Sat, 08 May 2004 19:22:16 GMT, Chris B.
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:05:27 GMT, "Doug Purdy" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>Check out Jan Wong's article "All thos cycle paths" in today's Globe and
>>Mail Toronto section page M3 or at
>>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
>Try:
><http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040508/WONG08//?query=jan+wong>
>
>>"At City Hall, a volunteer committee of 20 activist citizens views every
>>issue through the mud-spattered lens of an oppressed cyclist. Their job
>>is to develop policy and advise city staff and elected officials on
>>cycling matters. Last month, the committee virtually ensured that city
>>council will vote to slash the fine for sidewalk cycling to $50 from
>>$90. The rationale: The roads are getting too dangerous.
>>
>>"The pedestrian committee, a kinder, gentler group, actually supported
>>the cycling committee in cutting the fine. Asked why, Rita Brooks, the
>>pedestrian co-chairwoman and a non-cyclist, hesitated. "It was sort of
>>the lower-income argument. But that's not very good, is it?"
>>
>>"The cycling committee holds sway over a $72-million bike plan that will
>>change the face of the city. That includes doubling the number of
>>cyclists in Toronto within 10 years by ensuring everyone lives within a
>>five-minute ride of a network of 1,000 kilometres of bike paths"
>
>A self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
>More evidence that the greatest threat to people who wish to ride
>their bikes to go somewhere or who wish to ride above 5 km/h and don't
>desire dodging and weaving around 3 year olds on tricycles is the
>so-called Cycling Advocate.

Most cyclists in Toronto, who are not riding on the paths are riding
in traffic. _However_, (and I say that knowingly - I live here, and
get around in the city as a pedestrian, a cyclist and a driver)
Canadians, particularly those in southern Ontario, are much more
aggressive on the road than fifteen years ago. I'm sure that visiting
Americans have noticed our free interpretation of speed limits.

There are sections of suburbia, both in city limits and in the
surrounding muncipalities where I would not ride on the road in peak
volumne traffic. The roads are designed (and used) as six lane high
speed arterials - there is just too much difference in speed to bike
safely. I'm thinking of Dixie Road in Mississauga, from Eglington
north toe the 401 and north of the 401 to past Derry Rd. Cars
routinely travel at 100kph,, and there is no shoulder, just curbs. I'm
also thinking of the Queensway from Kipling to Dixie Rd. Massive
volumne, a highway interchange with a 400 series highway, a
destination shopping mall and a mushrooming group of outlet malls.
Lots of cars travelling at highspeed, then braking and turning.

On these sections, I soemtimes ride on the sidewalk. It's just safer.
I'd rather not bounce a hundred metres down the road. Pedestrian
traffic is very light.

Downtown, OTOH, is a different story. Due to daytime congestion, bikes
can move faster than cars in many neighbourhoods. Here, they belong on
the road and only the road. In fact, if I'm riding the trails on the
weekend, I make a point of doing so early in the morning, before the
majority of the dog walkers and families with kids are out. The parks
get heavily used after 10 am.

Shiirley Hicks
Toronto, Ontario

05-12-2004, 04:58 PM

On Sat, 08 May 2004 19:22:16 GMT, Chris B.
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:05:27 GMT, "Doug Purdy" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>Check out Jan Wong's article "All thos cycle paths" in today's Globe and
>>Mail Toronto section page M3 or at
>>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
>Try:
><http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040508/WONG08//?query=jan+wong>
>
>>"At City Hall, a volunteer committee of 20 activist citizens views every
>>issue through the mud-spattered lens of an oppressed cyclist. Their job
>>is to develop policy and advise city staff and elected officials on
>>cycling matters. Last month, the committee virtually ensured that city
>>council will vote to slash the fine for sidewalk cycling to $50 from
>>$90. The rationale: The roads are getting too dangerous.
>>
>>"The pedestrian committee, a kinder, gentler group, actually supported
>>the cycling committee in cutting the fine. Asked why, Rita Brooks, the
>>pedestrian co-chairwoman and a non-cyclist, hesitated. "It was sort of
>>the lower-income argument. But that's not very good, is it?"
>>
>>"The cycling committee holds sway over a $72-million bike plan that will
>>change the face of the city. That includes doubling the number of
>>cyclists in Toronto within 10 years by ensuring everyone lives within a
>>five-minute ride of a network of 1,000 kilometres of bike paths"
>
>A self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
>More evidence that the greatest threat to people who wish to ride
>their bikes to go somewhere or who wish to ride above 5 km/h and don't
>desire dodging and weaving around 3 year olds on tricycles is the
>so-called Cycling Advocate.

Most cyclists in Toronto, who are not riding on the paths are riding
in traffic. _However_, (and I say that knowingly - I live here, and
get around in the city as a pedestrian, a cyclist and a driver)
Canadians, particularly those in southern Ontario, are much more
aggressive on the road than fifteen years ago. I'm sure that visiting
Americans have noticed our free interpretation of speed limits.

There are sections of suburbia, both in city limits and in the
surrounding muncipalities where I would not ride on the road in peak
volumne traffic. The roads are designed (and used) as six lane high
speed arterials - there is just too much difference in speed to bike
safely. I'm thinking of Dixie Road in Mississauga, from Eglington
north toe the 401 and north of the 401 to past Derry Rd. Cars
routinely travel at 100kph,, and there is no shoulder, just curbs. I'm
also thinking of the Queensway from Kipling to Dixie Rd. Massive
volumne, a highway interchange with a 400 series highway, a
destination shopping mall and a mushrooming group of outlet malls.
Lots of cars travelling at highspeed, then braking and turning.

On these sections, I soemtimes ride on the sidewalk. It's just safer.
I'd rather not bounce a hundred metres down the road. Pedestrian
traffic is very light.

Downtown, OTOH, is a different story. Due to daytime congestion, bikes
can move faster than cars in many neighbourhoods. Here, they belong on
the road and only the road. In fact, if I'm riding the trails on the
weekend, I make a point of doing so early in the morning, before the
majority of the dog walkers and families with kids are out. The parks
get heavily used after 10 am.

Shiirley Hicks
Toronto, Ontario