OP Update - 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat? - Page 3

05-21-2004, 03:47 AM

Doug Cook wrote:
:: I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170
:: responses in 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial
:: question like the role of religion in politics or something. Or
:: maybe you all should be spending more time on your bikes and less in
:: front of the computer!

::
:: Here are some generalized opinions culled from those replies and my
:: response to them.
::
:: 1. I don't realize how much I'm really eating - Maybe, but I've
:: started keeping track again of everything that enters my mouth (I've
:: done this before). In the last two days (two typical days to the
:: best of my judgment) my caloric intake has not exceeded 2700. I'll
:: keep tracking for a week or two to see if that changes, but I doubt
:: it will. I just can't eat that much. Maybe I'm binging on the
:: weekends.

Do you have a scale and measure and weigh what you eat? I assume you're
making your own meals and not eating out, right?

::
:: 2. I'm not burning as much as I think I am on my rides - Maybe, but
:: my computer is correctly set, and I do wear a HRM. Every calculator
:: I can find tells me I'm burning at least 6400 calories a week on my
:: rides, and some estimate it as high as 10,000. I keep a ride dairy,
:: so I know I'm not over estimating my miles. Remember, I weigh 274.

I weigh 235. Yesterday I did 35 miles. My HRM said I burned 2741 kcals.
Fitday.com said I burned 1697 kcals and Cyclistat said I burned 1680 kcals.
Now, you'd think the HRM is more accurate since it know more about what I'm
doing. But that is quite a large variation in what I burned. I wonder if
any of them are right -- and a lot of people will tell you that all of these
are overestimates.

::
:: 3. I have a diabetic condition that is preventing me from losing
:: weight - This worried me. My family does have a history of Type II
:: when they get old and fat, but I have had none of the symptoms. But
:: I did get a HbA1c test.
:: 4.7%. 7% is considered threshold level for some kind of diabetic
:: disorder.

I'm a T2. My resting GB is about 80 to 85 and my HbA1c was 5.1%.. I
control my T2 with diet (low carb) and exercise. If you're not on a LC diet,
I doubt you're a T2.

::
:: So... after 170 posts (for which I'm grateful, don't get me wrong),
:: I'm back to beginning. I guess I'll go see a medical pro. Get all
:: the offiicial tests on the treadmill and all that. Who do I see? A
:: sports physiologist?
::

You can do that if you want...however, why don't you just bump calories down
to about 2200 for a couple of weeks. Keep everything else the same. You'll
lose weight. I don't see why it is so hard for everyone to think that
you're simply eating too much to lose weight.

05-21-2004, 03:53 AM

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:43:47 -0600, "Doug Cook"
:: <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
::
::: I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170
::: responses in 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial
::: question like the role of religion in politics or something. Or
::: maybe you all should be spending more time on your bikes and less
::: in front of the computer!

::
:: Many ppl spent time trying to help you and this seems like a
:: butt-head thing to say.
::
:: You have not spent even one iota of energy to actually input any
:: data for the kind bikers who type very fast and have a wealth of
:: knowledge and experience and who have had their lives transformed by
:: what we have tried to offer you - and not just 'do this do that'
:: comments.
::
:: Have you said what kind of food you eat? no.
::
:: Have you said when you eat? no.
::
:: So you're on your own bucko. It's -all- about the diet; first.
:: Hypothyroid? Unlikely. Insulin resistance - very likely. Pancreatic
:: (benign?) tumor? who knows.
::
:: Upshot? One - quit stuffing your fat face with pasta and doughnuts,
:: and go on a couple fluid fasts. Two - go see a doctor and let him
:: **** you up - b/c the medical profession spends approximately ONE
:: freakin' hour on nutrition in first year med-school. And Dietitions?
:: They're complete morons, who have never dieted, never thought for
:: themselves. I know I worked with them every day; I'm a pathologist
:: (non-MD), and have 33 years in the field. Three - read the
:: literature suggested to you.

I could not agree more, though I still think the guy is worth trying to
help. People get weird when it comes to diet and weight loss. It's like
talking about religion or something. It's just taking him a while to get
his head wrapped around the notion that he's eating too much. LC would be
the best for him, but calorie reduction will work too.

BTW, what does a pathologist do?

05-21-2004, 03:53 AM

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:43:47 -0600, "Doug Cook"
:: <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
::
::: I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170
::: responses in 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial
::: question like the role of religion in politics or something. Or
::: maybe you all should be spending more time on your bikes and less
::: in front of the computer!

::
:: Many ppl spent time trying to help you and this seems like a
:: butt-head thing to say.
::
:: You have not spent even one iota of energy to actually input any
:: data for the kind bikers who type very fast and have a wealth of
:: knowledge and experience and who have had their lives transformed by
:: what we have tried to offer you - and not just 'do this do that'
:: comments.
::
:: Have you said what kind of food you eat? no.
::
:: Have you said when you eat? no.
::
:: So you're on your own bucko. It's -all- about the diet; first.
:: Hypothyroid? Unlikely. Insulin resistance - very likely. Pancreatic
:: (benign?) tumor? who knows.
::
:: Upshot? One - quit stuffing your fat face with pasta and doughnuts,
:: and go on a couple fluid fasts. Two - go see a doctor and let him
:: **** you up - b/c the medical profession spends approximately ONE
:: freakin' hour on nutrition in first year med-school. And Dietitions?
:: They're complete morons, who have never dieted, never thought for
:: themselves. I know I worked with them every day; I'm a pathologist
:: (non-MD), and have 33 years in the field. Three - read the
:: literature suggested to you.

I could not agree more, though I still think the guy is worth trying to
help. People get weird when it comes to diet and weight loss. It's like
talking about religion or something. It's just taking him a while to get
his head wrapped around the notion that he's eating too much. LC would be
the best for him, but calorie reduction will work too.

BTW, what does a pathologist do?

05-21-2004, 03:53 AM

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:43:47 -0600, "Doug Cook"
:: <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
::
::: I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170
::: responses in 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial
::: question like the role of religion in politics or something. Or
::: maybe you all should be spending more time on your bikes and less
::: in front of the computer!

::
:: Many ppl spent time trying to help you and this seems like a
:: butt-head thing to say.
::
:: You have not spent even one iota of energy to actually input any
:: data for the kind bikers who type very fast and have a wealth of
:: knowledge and experience and who have had their lives transformed by
:: what we have tried to offer you - and not just 'do this do that'
:: comments.
::
:: Have you said what kind of food you eat? no.
::
:: Have you said when you eat? no.
::
:: So you're on your own bucko. It's -all- about the diet; first.
:: Hypothyroid? Unlikely. Insulin resistance - very likely. Pancreatic
:: (benign?) tumor? who knows.
::
:: Upshot? One - quit stuffing your fat face with pasta and doughnuts,
:: and go on a couple fluid fasts. Two - go see a doctor and let him
:: **** you up - b/c the medical profession spends approximately ONE
:: freakin' hour on nutrition in first year med-school. And Dietitions?
:: They're complete morons, who have never dieted, never thought for
:: themselves. I know I worked with them every day; I'm a pathologist
:: (non-MD), and have 33 years in the field. Three - read the
:: literature suggested to you.

I could not agree more, though I still think the guy is worth trying to
help. People get weird when it comes to diet and weight loss. It's like
talking about religion or something. It's just taking him a while to get
his head wrapped around the notion that he's eating too much. LC would be
the best for him, but calorie reduction will work too.

BTW, what does a pathologist do?

05-21-2004, 03:53 AM

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:43:47 -0600, "Doug Cook"
:: <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
::
::: I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170
::: responses in 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial
::: question like the role of religion in politics or something. Or
::: maybe you all should be spending more time on your bikes and less
::: in front of the computer!

::
:: Many ppl spent time trying to help you and this seems like a
:: butt-head thing to say.
::
:: You have not spent even one iota of energy to actually input any
:: data for the kind bikers who type very fast and have a wealth of
:: knowledge and experience and who have had their lives transformed by
:: what we have tried to offer you - and not just 'do this do that'
:: comments.
::
:: Have you said what kind of food you eat? no.
::
:: Have you said when you eat? no.
::
:: So you're on your own bucko. It's -all- about the diet; first.
:: Hypothyroid? Unlikely. Insulin resistance - very likely. Pancreatic
:: (benign?) tumor? who knows.
::
:: Upshot? One - quit stuffing your fat face with pasta and doughnuts,
:: and go on a couple fluid fasts. Two - go see a doctor and let him
:: **** you up - b/c the medical profession spends approximately ONE
:: freakin' hour on nutrition in first year med-school. And Dietitions?
:: They're complete morons, who have never dieted, never thought for
:: themselves. I know I worked with them every day; I'm a pathologist
:: (non-MD), and have 33 years in the field. Three - read the
:: literature suggested to you.

I could not agree more, though I still think the guy is worth trying to
help. People get weird when it comes to diet and weight loss. It's like
talking about religion or something. It's just taking him a while to get
his head wrapped around the notion that he's eating too much. LC would be
the best for him, but calorie reduction will work too.

BTW, what does a pathologist do?

05-21-2004, 03:53 AM

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:43:47 -0600, "Doug Cook"
:: <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
::
::: I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170
::: responses in 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial
::: question like the role of religion in politics or something. Or
::: maybe you all should be spending more time on your bikes and less
::: in front of the computer!

::
:: Many ppl spent time trying to help you and this seems like a
:: butt-head thing to say.
::
:: You have not spent even one iota of energy to actually input any
:: data for the kind bikers who type very fast and have a wealth of
:: knowledge and experience and who have had their lives transformed by
:: what we have tried to offer you - and not just 'do this do that'
:: comments.
::
:: Have you said what kind of food you eat? no.
::
:: Have you said when you eat? no.
::
:: So you're on your own bucko. It's -all- about the diet; first.
:: Hypothyroid? Unlikely. Insulin resistance - very likely. Pancreatic
:: (benign?) tumor? who knows.
::
:: Upshot? One - quit stuffing your fat face with pasta and doughnuts,
:: and go on a couple fluid fasts. Two - go see a doctor and let him
:: **** you up - b/c the medical profession spends approximately ONE
:: freakin' hour on nutrition in first year med-school. And Dietitions?
:: They're complete morons, who have never dieted, never thought for
:: themselves. I know I worked with them every day; I'm a pathologist
:: (non-MD), and have 33 years in the field. Three - read the
:: literature suggested to you.

I could not agree more, though I still think the guy is worth trying to
help. People get weird when it comes to diet and weight loss. It's like
talking about religion or something. It's just taking him a while to get
his head wrapped around the notion that he's eating too much. LC would be
the best for him, but calorie reduction will work too.

BTW, what does a pathologist do?

05-21-2004, 04:29 AM

On Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:36 GMT, "Gooserider"
<gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>
>"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:JrudnQhuXq9gFTDdRVn-sQ@aros.net...
>> I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170 responses in
>> 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial question like the
>> role of religion in politics or something.
>
>Nothing controversial about it. Losing weight is NOT complicated. Fat people
>like to think it is, but it isn't. I'll say this again---if you burn more
>calories than you intake, you will lose weight. Period. The body is kinda
>neat in the way it follows the laws of physics. Yes, you can do all sorts of
>tricks, like carbohydrate reduction and such, but it all comes down to
>intake vs. output. You weigh 274 pounds, so you need to intake at least 2740
>just to maintain. Since you're riding a lot, you have to be eating a lot of
>calories somewhere. You're on the right track by monitoring what you eat,
>but make sure to keep portion control. Measure your food if you have to. If
>you eat 2700 kcal/day and exercise, you will lose weight. Just remember to
>keep yourself in calorie debt. Exercise is not an excuse to pig out, until
>you get to racer-weight. :-)

This just shows you how bone-headed gooserider is being. Check out the
issue of Time magazine (09/02/2002, pg 51) for a good graphic on the
exquisite and triple-redundant mechanisms that the body has for maintaining
its weight.

Ghrelin, alpha-protein, protein YY, brain hormone loops, large and small
intestine, leptin, insulin, and lots more. All those things adjust your
mood and your appetite to make this DRIVE, the hardest to over-ride of
almost every drive the human body has, excepting perhaps the
fight/flight/survival drive.

If you are young and have high ability to put out hGH, and other hormones,
then it will be hard to move the set-point to a higher level and gain fat
and you can eat -way- over calorie needs and still somehow burn it off.
It's a fx of the metabolism.

For those with additional -problems-, hypo or hyper thyroid, insulin
resistance, bad/damaged insulin receptors, it's a pickle.

In addition we now are beginnning to understand the 'fat cell' is not a
static storage vessel, but is active and putting out signals.

No slam on goose, b/c if he's fit and young, it -is- simple for him.

-B
I've attached a small .jpg file of a greatly simplified diagram I put
together that gives you some idea of the redundant feedback loops.
leptin1.jpg

05-21-2004, 04:29 AM

On Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:36 GMT, "Gooserider"
<gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>
>"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:JrudnQhuXq9gFTDdRVn-sQ@aros.net...
>> I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170 responses in
>> 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial question like the
>> role of religion in politics or something.
>
>Nothing controversial about it. Losing weight is NOT complicated. Fat people
>like to think it is, but it isn't. I'll say this again---if you burn more
>calories than you intake, you will lose weight. Period. The body is kinda
>neat in the way it follows the laws of physics. Yes, you can do all sorts of
>tricks, like carbohydrate reduction and such, but it all comes down to
>intake vs. output. You weigh 274 pounds, so you need to intake at least 2740
>just to maintain. Since you're riding a lot, you have to be eating a lot of
>calories somewhere. You're on the right track by monitoring what you eat,
>but make sure to keep portion control. Measure your food if you have to. If
>you eat 2700 kcal/day and exercise, you will lose weight. Just remember to
>keep yourself in calorie debt. Exercise is not an excuse to pig out, until
>you get to racer-weight. :-)

This just shows you how bone-headed gooserider is being. Check out the
issue of Time magazine (09/02/2002, pg 51) for a good graphic on the
exquisite and triple-redundant mechanisms that the body has for maintaining
its weight.

Ghrelin, alpha-protein, protein YY, brain hormone loops, large and small
intestine, leptin, insulin, and lots more. All those things adjust your
mood and your appetite to make this DRIVE, the hardest to over-ride of
almost every drive the human body has, excepting perhaps the
fight/flight/survival drive.

If you are young and have high ability to put out hGH, and other hormones,
then it will be hard to move the set-point to a higher level and gain fat
and you can eat -way- over calorie needs and still somehow burn it off.
It's a fx of the metabolism.

For those with additional -problems-, hypo or hyper thyroid, insulin
resistance, bad/damaged insulin receptors, it's a pickle.

In addition we now are beginnning to understand the 'fat cell' is not a
static storage vessel, but is active and putting out signals.

No slam on goose, b/c if he's fit and young, it -is- simple for him.

-B
I've attached a small .jpg file of a greatly simplified diagram I put
together that gives you some idea of the redundant feedback loops.
leptin1.jpg

05-21-2004, 04:29 AM

On Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:36 GMT, "Gooserider"
<gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>
>"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:JrudnQhuXq9gFTDdRVn-sQ@aros.net...
>> I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170 responses in
>> 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial question like the
>> role of religion in politics or something.
>
>Nothing controversial about it. Losing weight is NOT complicated. Fat people
>like to think it is, but it isn't. I'll say this again---if you burn more
>calories than you intake, you will lose weight. Period. The body is kinda
>neat in the way it follows the laws of physics. Yes, you can do all sorts of
>tricks, like carbohydrate reduction and such, but it all comes down to
>intake vs. output. You weigh 274 pounds, so you need to intake at least 2740
>just to maintain. Since you're riding a lot, you have to be eating a lot of
>calories somewhere. You're on the right track by monitoring what you eat,
>but make sure to keep portion control. Measure your food if you have to. If
>you eat 2700 kcal/day and exercise, you will lose weight. Just remember to
>keep yourself in calorie debt. Exercise is not an excuse to pig out, until
>you get to racer-weight. :-)

This just shows you how bone-headed gooserider is being. Check out the
issue of Time magazine (09/02/2002, pg 51) for a good graphic on the
exquisite and triple-redundant mechanisms that the body has for maintaining
its weight.

Ghrelin, alpha-protein, protein YY, brain hormone loops, large and small
intestine, leptin, insulin, and lots more. All those things adjust your
mood and your appetite to make this DRIVE, the hardest to over-ride of
almost every drive the human body has, excepting perhaps the
fight/flight/survival drive.

If you are young and have high ability to put out hGH, and other hormones,
then it will be hard to move the set-point to a higher level and gain fat
and you can eat -way- over calorie needs and still somehow burn it off.
It's a fx of the metabolism.

For those with additional -problems-, hypo or hyper thyroid, insulin
resistance, bad/damaged insulin receptors, it's a pickle.

In addition we now are beginnning to understand the 'fat cell' is not a
static storage vessel, but is active and putting out signals.

No slam on goose, b/c if he's fit and young, it -is- simple for him.

-B
I've attached a small .jpg file of a greatly simplified diagram I put
together that gives you some idea of the redundant feedback loops.
leptin1.jpg

05-21-2004, 04:29 AM

On Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:36 GMT, "Gooserider"
<gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>
>"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:JrudnQhuXq9gFTDdRVn-sQ@aros.net...
>> I know I asked for some thoughts, but come on, people! 170 responses in
>> 48hrs? Maybe I should have asked a less controversial question like the
>> role of religion in politics or something.
>
>Nothing controversial about it. Losing weight is NOT complicated. Fat people
>like to think it is, but it isn't. I'll say this again---if you burn more
>calories than you intake, you will lose weight. Period. The body is kinda
>neat in the way it follows the laws of physics. Yes, you can do all sorts of
>tricks, like carbohydrate reduction and such, but it all comes down to
>intake vs. output. You weigh 274 pounds, so you need to intake at least 2740
>just to maintain. Since you're riding a lot, you have to be eating a lot of
>calories somewhere. You're on the right track by monitoring what you eat,
>but make sure to keep portion control. Measure your food if you have to. If
>you eat 2700 kcal/day and exercise, you will lose weight. Just remember to
>keep yourself in calorie debt. Exercise is not an excuse to pig out, until
>you get to racer-weight. :-)

This just shows you how bone-headed gooserider is being. Check out the
issue of Time magazine (09/02/2002, pg 51) for a good graphic on the
exquisite and triple-redundant mechanisms that the body has for maintaining
its weight.

Ghrelin, alpha-protein, protein YY, brain hormone loops, large and small
intestine, leptin, insulin, and lots more. All those things adjust your
mood and your appetite to make this DRIVE, the hardest to over-ride of
almost every drive the human body has, excepting perhaps the
fight/flight/survival drive.

If you are young and have high ability to put out hGH, and other hormones,
then it will be hard to move the set-point to a higher level and gain fat
and you can eat -way- over calorie needs and still somehow burn it off.
It's a fx of the metabolism.

For those with additional -problems-, hypo or hyper thyroid, insulin
resistance, bad/damaged insulin receptors, it's a pickle.

In addition we now are beginnning to understand the 'fat cell' is not a
static storage vessel, but is active and putting out signals.

No slam on goose, b/c if he's fit and young, it -is- simple for him.

-B
I've attached a small .jpg file of a greatly simplified diagram I put
together that gives you some idea of the redundant feedback loops.
leptin1.jpg