Cramps - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

05-31-2004, 11:20 AM

I got into a pretty bad place with cramps yesterday doing a ride which
was a step up from what from what I had done before. It was a first try
at going up to Skyline from where I live in Palo Alto. Using a mapping
program,counting the ups and downs, this is about 2600 total feet of
gain. The first eight miles is rolling with total gain of 600 feet to
the start of Kings Mtn road, and then it gets hard and gains 1600 feet
in four miles. So I got to the top of that and took a rest. The day was
in the mid 70's and the route is mostly shady so I did't feel
particularly overheated, nor did it seem like I had sweated excessively.
I was tired but I didn't feel spent or bonked or particularyly
dehydrated. I spent about ten minutes resting and drank about 16 oz of
Gatorade and ate an enery bar. The I headed on. The rest of the route
was south on Skyline and was to gain about 300 feet over a couple of
miles and a few more downhill miles to my descent route. It was on this
uphill the trouble started. I started getting cramps in my quads and the
muscles on the inside of my thighs. I had to stop and get over them.
Then I started again and before long the cramps hit again. I took about
3 cycles of this to get over the hump and down La Honda road to the
flats. When I got there it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to
climb even the short hills it would take to get home, so to avoid a
littering citation, I called my spousal unit to come pick up the bike
and the grotesquely twitching corpse.

So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.

The one good thing I want to comment on, was the number people on bikes
who observed me having problems, and asked how I was doing or could they
help.

Mike

take 100 out of my email to reach me.

05-31-2004, 01:01 PM

I have been fighting cramps for about 5 years and have done a ton of
research. Two main responses you are going to get will focus on hydration
and electrolytes. These are usually the key cause for the large percentage
of those who end up getting cramps. Unfortunately, they are not the reason
for mine. Realize with today's bike clothes and the breeze from riding, it
is hard to know how much you are really sweating. One good indication is
the amount of salt in your bike clothes after riding. An important thing
is to take constant sips throughout your ride. The body can only absorb so
much water at any one time. This is the reason that a number of people use
Camelbaks. The other important thing is to take in electrolytes while your
ride.

Another focus is on how the body utilizes carbohydrates (glucose and
glycogen) and the resulting processing of lactic acid; this has made me
realize that these attacks have always been during periods of increased
Cytomax usage. Cytomax is based on and contains an alpha-L-polylactate
(label attached). It is basically the lactate with the acid removed and
works as a buffer, clustered around amino acids and carbohydrates. They
describe this as a non-acidic L-lactate ionically bound to L-argine. I have
encountered three other riders that were having challenges with cramping
that was tied to their usage of Cytomax (if there are others who are reading
this post, please respond). After I stopped using Cytomax, I have only had
one episode. Other than the Gatorade indicate below, do you use any
sports/energy type drinks?

Have you had any previous episodes?

"Mike McGuire" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.eart hlink.net...
> I got into a pretty bad place with cramps yesterday doing a ride which
> was a step up from what from what I had done before. It was a first try
> at going up to Skyline from where I live in Palo Alto. Using a mapping
> program,counting the ups and downs, this is about 2600 total feet of
> gain. The first eight miles is rolling with total gain of 600 feet to
> the start of Kings Mtn road, and then it gets hard and gains 1600 feet
> in four miles. So I got to the top of that and took a rest. The day was
> in the mid 70's and the route is mostly shady so I did't feel
> particularly overheated, nor did it seem like I had sweated excessively.
> I was tired but I didn't feel spent or bonked or particularyly
> dehydrated. I spent about ten minutes resting and drank about 16 oz of
> Gatorade and ate an enery bar. The I headed on. The rest of the route
> was south on Skyline and was to gain about 300 feet over a couple of
> miles and a few more downhill miles to my descent route. It was on this
> uphill the trouble started. I started getting cramps in my quads and the
> muscles on the inside of my thighs. I had to stop and get over them.
> Then I started again and before long the cramps hit again. I took about
> 3 cycles of this to get over the hump and down La Honda road to the
> flats. When I got there it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to
> climb even the short hills it would take to get home, so to avoid a
> littering citation, I called my spousal unit to come pick up the bike
> and the grotesquely twitching corpse.
>
> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.
>
> The one good thing I want to comment on, was the number people on bikes
> who observed me having problems, and asked how I was doing or could they
> help.
>
> Mike
>
> take 100 out of my email to reach me.
>

05-31-2004, 01:01 PM

I have been fighting cramps for about 5 years and have done a ton of
research. Two main responses you are going to get will focus on hydration
and electrolytes. These are usually the key cause for the large percentage
of those who end up getting cramps. Unfortunately, they are not the reason
for mine. Realize with today's bike clothes and the breeze from riding, it
is hard to know how much you are really sweating. One good indication is
the amount of salt in your bike clothes after riding. An important thing
is to take constant sips throughout your ride. The body can only absorb so
much water at any one time. This is the reason that a number of people use
Camelbaks. The other important thing is to take in electrolytes while your
ride.

Another focus is on how the body utilizes carbohydrates (glucose and
glycogen) and the resulting processing of lactic acid; this has made me
realize that these attacks have always been during periods of increased
Cytomax usage. Cytomax is based on and contains an alpha-L-polylactate
(label attached). It is basically the lactate with the acid removed and
works as a buffer, clustered around amino acids and carbohydrates. They
describe this as a non-acidic L-lactate ionically bound to L-argine. I have
encountered three other riders that were having challenges with cramping
that was tied to their usage of Cytomax (if there are others who are reading
this post, please respond). After I stopped using Cytomax, I have only had
one episode. Other than the Gatorade indicate below, do you use any
sports/energy type drinks?

Have you had any previous episodes?

"Mike McGuire" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.eart hlink.net...
> I got into a pretty bad place with cramps yesterday doing a ride which
> was a step up from what from what I had done before. It was a first try
> at going up to Skyline from where I live in Palo Alto. Using a mapping
> program,counting the ups and downs, this is about 2600 total feet of
> gain. The first eight miles is rolling with total gain of 600 feet to
> the start of Kings Mtn road, and then it gets hard and gains 1600 feet
> in four miles. So I got to the top of that and took a rest. The day was
> in the mid 70's and the route is mostly shady so I did't feel
> particularly overheated, nor did it seem like I had sweated excessively.
> I was tired but I didn't feel spent or bonked or particularyly
> dehydrated. I spent about ten minutes resting and drank about 16 oz of
> Gatorade and ate an enery bar. The I headed on. The rest of the route
> was south on Skyline and was to gain about 300 feet over a couple of
> miles and a few more downhill miles to my descent route. It was on this
> uphill the trouble started. I started getting cramps in my quads and the
> muscles on the inside of my thighs. I had to stop and get over them.
> Then I started again and before long the cramps hit again. I took about
> 3 cycles of this to get over the hump and down La Honda road to the
> flats. When I got there it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to
> climb even the short hills it would take to get home, so to avoid a
> littering citation, I called my spousal unit to come pick up the bike
> and the grotesquely twitching corpse.
>
> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.
>
> The one good thing I want to comment on, was the number people on bikes
> who observed me having problems, and asked how I was doing or could they
> help.
>
> Mike
>
> take 100 out of my email to reach me.
>

05-31-2004, 01:01 PM

I have been fighting cramps for about 5 years and have done a ton of
research. Two main responses you are going to get will focus on hydration
and electrolytes. These are usually the key cause for the large percentage
of those who end up getting cramps. Unfortunately, they are not the reason
for mine. Realize with today's bike clothes and the breeze from riding, it
is hard to know how much you are really sweating. One good indication is
the amount of salt in your bike clothes after riding. An important thing
is to take constant sips throughout your ride. The body can only absorb so
much water at any one time. This is the reason that a number of people use
Camelbaks. The other important thing is to take in electrolytes while your
ride.

Another focus is on how the body utilizes carbohydrates (glucose and
glycogen) and the resulting processing of lactic acid; this has made me
realize that these attacks have always been during periods of increased
Cytomax usage. Cytomax is based on and contains an alpha-L-polylactate
(label attached). It is basically the lactate with the acid removed and
works as a buffer, clustered around amino acids and carbohydrates. They
describe this as a non-acidic L-lactate ionically bound to L-argine. I have
encountered three other riders that were having challenges with cramping
that was tied to their usage of Cytomax (if there are others who are reading
this post, please respond). After I stopped using Cytomax, I have only had
one episode. Other than the Gatorade indicate below, do you use any
sports/energy type drinks?

Have you had any previous episodes?

"Mike McGuire" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.eart hlink.net...
> I got into a pretty bad place with cramps yesterday doing a ride which
> was a step up from what from what I had done before. It was a first try
> at going up to Skyline from where I live in Palo Alto. Using a mapping
> program,counting the ups and downs, this is about 2600 total feet of
> gain. The first eight miles is rolling with total gain of 600 feet to
> the start of Kings Mtn road, and then it gets hard and gains 1600 feet
> in four miles. So I got to the top of that and took a rest. The day was
> in the mid 70's and the route is mostly shady so I did't feel
> particularly overheated, nor did it seem like I had sweated excessively.
> I was tired but I didn't feel spent or bonked or particularyly
> dehydrated. I spent about ten minutes resting and drank about 16 oz of
> Gatorade and ate an enery bar. The I headed on. The rest of the route
> was south on Skyline and was to gain about 300 feet over a couple of
> miles and a few more downhill miles to my descent route. It was on this
> uphill the trouble started. I started getting cramps in my quads and the
> muscles on the inside of my thighs. I had to stop and get over them.
> Then I started again and before long the cramps hit again. I took about
> 3 cycles of this to get over the hump and down La Honda road to the
> flats. When I got there it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to
> climb even the short hills it would take to get home, so to avoid a
> littering citation, I called my spousal unit to come pick up the bike
> and the grotesquely twitching corpse.
>
> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.
>
> The one good thing I want to comment on, was the number people on bikes
> who observed me having problems, and asked how I was doing or could they
> help.
>
> Mike
>
> take 100 out of my email to reach me.
>

05-31-2004, 01:01 PM

I have been fighting cramps for about 5 years and have done a ton of
research. Two main responses you are going to get will focus on hydration
and electrolytes. These are usually the key cause for the large percentage
of those who end up getting cramps. Unfortunately, they are not the reason
for mine. Realize with today's bike clothes and the breeze from riding, it
is hard to know how much you are really sweating. One good indication is
the amount of salt in your bike clothes after riding. An important thing
is to take constant sips throughout your ride. The body can only absorb so
much water at any one time. This is the reason that a number of people use
Camelbaks. The other important thing is to take in electrolytes while your
ride.

Another focus is on how the body utilizes carbohydrates (glucose and
glycogen) and the resulting processing of lactic acid; this has made me
realize that these attacks have always been during periods of increased
Cytomax usage. Cytomax is based on and contains an alpha-L-polylactate
(label attached). It is basically the lactate with the acid removed and
works as a buffer, clustered around amino acids and carbohydrates. They
describe this as a non-acidic L-lactate ionically bound to L-argine. I have
encountered three other riders that were having challenges with cramping
that was tied to their usage of Cytomax (if there are others who are reading
this post, please respond). After I stopped using Cytomax, I have only had
one episode. Other than the Gatorade indicate below, do you use any
sports/energy type drinks?

Have you had any previous episodes?

"Mike McGuire" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.eart hlink.net...
> I got into a pretty bad place with cramps yesterday doing a ride which
> was a step up from what from what I had done before. It was a first try
> at going up to Skyline from where I live in Palo Alto. Using a mapping
> program,counting the ups and downs, this is about 2600 total feet of
> gain. The first eight miles is rolling with total gain of 600 feet to
> the start of Kings Mtn road, and then it gets hard and gains 1600 feet
> in four miles. So I got to the top of that and took a rest. The day was
> in the mid 70's and the route is mostly shady so I did't feel
> particularly overheated, nor did it seem like I had sweated excessively.
> I was tired but I didn't feel spent or bonked or particularyly
> dehydrated. I spent about ten minutes resting and drank about 16 oz of
> Gatorade and ate an enery bar. The I headed on. The rest of the route
> was south on Skyline and was to gain about 300 feet over a couple of
> miles and a few more downhill miles to my descent route. It was on this
> uphill the trouble started. I started getting cramps in my quads and the
> muscles on the inside of my thighs. I had to stop and get over them.
> Then I started again and before long the cramps hit again. I took about
> 3 cycles of this to get over the hump and down La Honda road to the
> flats. When I got there it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to
> climb even the short hills it would take to get home, so to avoid a
> littering citation, I called my spousal unit to come pick up the bike
> and the grotesquely twitching corpse.
>
> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.
>
> The one good thing I want to comment on, was the number people on bikes
> who observed me having problems, and asked how I was doing or could they
> help.
>
> Mike
>
> take 100 out of my email to reach me.
>

05-31-2004, 01:01 PM

I have been fighting cramps for about 5 years and have done a ton of
research. Two main responses you are going to get will focus on hydration
and electrolytes. These are usually the key cause for the large percentage
of those who end up getting cramps. Unfortunately, they are not the reason
for mine. Realize with today's bike clothes and the breeze from riding, it
is hard to know how much you are really sweating. One good indication is
the amount of salt in your bike clothes after riding. An important thing
is to take constant sips throughout your ride. The body can only absorb so
much water at any one time. This is the reason that a number of people use
Camelbaks. The other important thing is to take in electrolytes while your
ride.

Another focus is on how the body utilizes carbohydrates (glucose and
glycogen) and the resulting processing of lactic acid; this has made me
realize that these attacks have always been during periods of increased
Cytomax usage. Cytomax is based on and contains an alpha-L-polylactate
(label attached). It is basically the lactate with the acid removed and
works as a buffer, clustered around amino acids and carbohydrates. They
describe this as a non-acidic L-lactate ionically bound to L-argine. I have
encountered three other riders that were having challenges with cramping
that was tied to their usage of Cytomax (if there are others who are reading
this post, please respond). After I stopped using Cytomax, I have only had
one episode. Other than the Gatorade indicate below, do you use any
sports/energy type drinks?

Have you had any previous episodes?

"Mike McGuire" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.eart hlink.net...
> I got into a pretty bad place with cramps yesterday doing a ride which
> was a step up from what from what I had done before. It was a first try
> at going up to Skyline from where I live in Palo Alto. Using a mapping
> program,counting the ups and downs, this is about 2600 total feet of
> gain. The first eight miles is rolling with total gain of 600 feet to
> the start of Kings Mtn road, and then it gets hard and gains 1600 feet
> in four miles. So I got to the top of that and took a rest. The day was
> in the mid 70's and the route is mostly shady so I did't feel
> particularly overheated, nor did it seem like I had sweated excessively.
> I was tired but I didn't feel spent or bonked or particularyly
> dehydrated. I spent about ten minutes resting and drank about 16 oz of
> Gatorade and ate an enery bar. The I headed on. The rest of the route
> was south on Skyline and was to gain about 300 feet over a couple of
> miles and a few more downhill miles to my descent route. It was on this
> uphill the trouble started. I started getting cramps in my quads and the
> muscles on the inside of my thighs. I had to stop and get over them.
> Then I started again and before long the cramps hit again. I took about
> 3 cycles of this to get over the hump and down La Honda road to the
> flats. When I got there it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to
> climb even the short hills it would take to get home, so to avoid a
> littering citation, I called my spousal unit to come pick up the bike
> and the grotesquely twitching corpse.
>
> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.
>
> The one good thing I want to comment on, was the number people on bikes
> who observed me having problems, and asked how I was doing or could they
> help.
>
> Mike
>
> take 100 out of my email to reach me.
>

05-31-2004, 01:12 PM

In article <MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earthlin k.net>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.

Pure muscular exhaustion can cause cramps, but from what I've read and
experienced, low electrolytes (particularly potassium and sodium) can
contribute as well. In your case, it sounds like you had simply over-
worked your legs.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

05-31-2004, 01:12 PM

In article <MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earthlin k.net>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.

Pure muscular exhaustion can cause cramps, but from what I've read and
experienced, low electrolytes (particularly potassium and sodium) can
contribute as well. In your case, it sounds like you had simply over-
worked your legs.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

05-31-2004, 01:12 PM

In article <MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earthlin k.net>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.

Pure muscular exhaustion can cause cramps, but from what I've read and
experienced, low electrolytes (particularly potassium and sodium) can
contribute as well. In your case, it sounds like you had simply over-
worked your legs.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

05-31-2004, 01:12 PM

In article <MzLuc.16852$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].pas.earthlin k.net>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> So what to do about this? How to avoid it. I want to do rides like this
> and more. It wasn't like a bonk. If it weren't for the cramps, I had
> plenty of energy to keep going. It seems like it was some sort of
> depletion thing going on. I hit zero on something and the cramps
> started. I stopped and recovered a little bit, but before long I zeroed
> out again, and finally I got to where there was no recovery at all.

Pure muscular exhaustion can cause cramps, but from what I've read and
experienced, low electrolytes (particularly potassium and sodium) can
contribute as well. In your case, it sounds like you had simply over-
worked your legs.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.