Kidney Stones & Riding - Page 2 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-04-2004, 06:33 AM

howitzer <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> I've been road cycling hard core for about 4 years now and I just had
> my first experience with a kidney stone (not fun). The lab results
> came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist is telling me I need to
> cut down on my calcium intake with things like green leafy veggies,
> chocolate (oh no!) and nuts.

hmmm, that's a weird one. i used to get 'em like clockwork every 2 years
(calcium oxalate/phosphate? not sure -- i didn't have insurance for most of
my twenties) for 8 years and then they just stopped 6 years ago. i still
bike just as often, hydrate about the same or not (i don't really think about
electrolytes). what changed was i stopped drinking what had been a fair bit
of milk & soda and became a vegetarian (ie, i'm now eating a lot more leafy
veggies and nuts, thanks -- i'm a mutant who doesn't like chocolate).

i still have vivid memories of being in fetal position in an observation
room. yow .. then again, i do have knowledge most people my age don't
have about really good pain killers. actually, my favourite memory of
kidney stones is after starting to pass one (while uninsured) at breakfast
i got on my bike and went downtown minneapolis and tried to buy health
insurance. clearly i wasn't thinking too straight. i entered the office
at lunch hour (i'm not exactly a morning person) and when the receptionist
told me it would be 40 minutes i knew i couldn't wait that long (it was
starting to hurt bad enuf to effect my vision) i went to work where i
walked into tech-support and asked for a ride to the clinic at the U of M.
someone gave me one but i got nauseous and vomit'd in the nearest bag i
could grab. which turned out to be his mcd's breakfast .. i know that
because his comment was:

"awww, man. you owe me a bacon, egg and cheese biscuit meal."

then came the demerol shot.

but hey, good luck with the not getting kidney stones thing.
--
david reuteler
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

06-04-2004, 08:56 AM

howitzer wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I've been road cycling hard core for about 4 years now and I just had
> my first experience with a kidney stone (not fun). The lab results
> came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist is telling me I need to
> cut down on my calcium intake with things like green leafy veggies,
> chocolate (oh no!) and nuts. I'm not convinced this is the problem
> since my diet has not varied for many years and I do not consume lots
> of dairy products and I have about two salads a week. My thought is
> that I am loosing too much sodium and potassium while riding, and not
> replacing it fast enough. This would cause an electrolite imbalance. I
> drink lots of water and sports drinks while riding and about 4 liters
> or H2O daily. Am I not taking enough sodium? Anyone have thoughts on
> this or experienced the same? Any doctors care to comment?

Not a doc, but oft a patient -- have had 4 or 5 episodes of kidney stones,
two resulting in "procedures" to remove and/or crush them (the latter being
lithotripsy; the former being blocked from memory!).

I also had a secondary contributing factor: my bones weren't absorbing
calcium, so they got weak while the calcium collected in my kidneys. Ended
up with stress fractures all over my body (I was a runner back then), due to
low bone density.

What seems to have worked for me is taking a diuretic (HCTZ) and Potassium
Citrate, as I haven't had a stone in years (knock on oxalate). The only
change to my diet, really, was to greatly reduce soda consumption; I just
don't have 'em in the house any more. (So now an occasional Coke is a real
treat.) No milk, but plenty of cheese still.

I was put on Fosamax for a while to rebuild my bone density; taken off it
once back to normal.

I've heard the reports of cyclists and brittle bones recently, so it's
something I should watch, no doubt. The only other exercise I'm doing
nowadays is yoga, which although weigh-bearing isn't exactly strenuous.

I'd advise listening to your doc but also your gut; the dietary changes s/he
recommended aren't that drastic, after all.

Bill "no help but got to tell my riveting tale" S.

06-04-2004, 08:56 AM

howitzer wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I've been road cycling hard core for about 4 years now and I just had
> my first experience with a kidney stone (not fun). The lab results
> came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist is telling me I need to
> cut down on my calcium intake with things like green leafy veggies,
> chocolate (oh no!) and nuts. I'm not convinced this is the problem
> since my diet has not varied for many years and I do not consume lots
> of dairy products and I have about two salads a week. My thought is
> that I am loosing too much sodium and potassium while riding, and not
> replacing it fast enough. This would cause an electrolite imbalance. I
> drink lots of water and sports drinks while riding and about 4 liters
> or H2O daily. Am I not taking enough sodium? Anyone have thoughts on
> this or experienced the same? Any doctors care to comment?

Not a doc, but oft a patient -- have had 4 or 5 episodes of kidney stones,
two resulting in "procedures" to remove and/or crush them (the latter being
lithotripsy; the former being blocked from memory!).

I also had a secondary contributing factor: my bones weren't absorbing
calcium, so they got weak while the calcium collected in my kidneys. Ended
up with stress fractures all over my body (I was a runner back then), due to
low bone density.

What seems to have worked for me is taking a diuretic (HCTZ) and Potassium
Citrate, as I haven't had a stone in years (knock on oxalate). The only
change to my diet, really, was to greatly reduce soda consumption; I just
don't have 'em in the house any more. (So now an occasional Coke is a real
treat.) No milk, but plenty of cheese still.

I was put on Fosamax for a while to rebuild my bone density; taken off it
once back to normal.

I've heard the reports of cyclists and brittle bones recently, so it's
something I should watch, no doubt. The only other exercise I'm doing
nowadays is yoga, which although weigh-bearing isn't exactly strenuous.

I'd advise listening to your doc but also your gut; the dietary changes s/he
recommended aren't that drastic, after all.

Bill "no help but got to tell my riveting tale" S.

06-04-2004, 08:56 AM

howitzer wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I've been road cycling hard core for about 4 years now and I just had
> my first experience with a kidney stone (not fun). The lab results
> came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist is telling me I need to
> cut down on my calcium intake with things like green leafy veggies,
> chocolate (oh no!) and nuts. I'm not convinced this is the problem
> since my diet has not varied for many years and I do not consume lots
> of dairy products and I have about two salads a week. My thought is
> that I am loosing too much sodium and potassium while riding, and not
> replacing it fast enough. This would cause an electrolite imbalance. I
> drink lots of water and sports drinks while riding and about 4 liters
> or H2O daily. Am I not taking enough sodium? Anyone have thoughts on
> this or experienced the same? Any doctors care to comment?

Not a doc, but oft a patient -- have had 4 or 5 episodes of kidney stones,
two resulting in "procedures" to remove and/or crush them (the latter being
lithotripsy; the former being blocked from memory!).

I also had a secondary contributing factor: my bones weren't absorbing
calcium, so they got weak while the calcium collected in my kidneys. Ended
up with stress fractures all over my body (I was a runner back then), due to
low bone density.

What seems to have worked for me is taking a diuretic (HCTZ) and Potassium
Citrate, as I haven't had a stone in years (knock on oxalate). The only
change to my diet, really, was to greatly reduce soda consumption; I just
don't have 'em in the house any more. (So now an occasional Coke is a real
treat.) No milk, but plenty of cheese still.

I was put on Fosamax for a while to rebuild my bone density; taken off it
once back to normal.

I've heard the reports of cyclists and brittle bones recently, so it's
something I should watch, no doubt. The only other exercise I'm doing
nowadays is yoga, which although weigh-bearing isn't exactly strenuous.

I'd advise listening to your doc but also your gut; the dietary changes s/he
recommended aren't that drastic, after all.

Bill "no help but got to tell my riveting tale" S.

06-04-2004, 08:56 AM

howitzer wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I've been road cycling hard core for about 4 years now and I just had
> my first experience with a kidney stone (not fun). The lab results
> came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist is telling me I need to
> cut down on my calcium intake with things like green leafy veggies,
> chocolate (oh no!) and nuts. I'm not convinced this is the problem
> since my diet has not varied for many years and I do not consume lots
> of dairy products and I have about two salads a week. My thought is
> that I am loosing too much sodium and potassium while riding, and not
> replacing it fast enough. This would cause an electrolite imbalance. I
> drink lots of water and sports drinks while riding and about 4 liters
> or H2O daily. Am I not taking enough sodium? Anyone have thoughts on
> this or experienced the same? Any doctors care to comment?

Not a doc, but oft a patient -- have had 4 or 5 episodes of kidney stones,
two resulting in "procedures" to remove and/or crush them (the latter being
lithotripsy; the former being blocked from memory!).

I also had a secondary contributing factor: my bones weren't absorbing
calcium, so they got weak while the calcium collected in my kidneys. Ended
up with stress fractures all over my body (I was a runner back then), due to
low bone density.

What seems to have worked for me is taking a diuretic (HCTZ) and Potassium
Citrate, as I haven't had a stone in years (knock on oxalate). The only
change to my diet, really, was to greatly reduce soda consumption; I just
don't have 'em in the house any more. (So now an occasional Coke is a real
treat.) No milk, but plenty of cheese still.

I was put on Fosamax for a while to rebuild my bone density; taken off it
once back to normal.

I've heard the reports of cyclists and brittle bones recently, so it's
something I should watch, no doubt. The only other exercise I'm doing
nowadays is yoga, which although weigh-bearing isn't exactly strenuous.

I'd advise listening to your doc but also your gut; the dietary changes s/he
recommended aren't that drastic, after all.

Bill "no help but got to tell my riveting tale" S.

06-04-2004, 08:56 AM

howitzer wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I've been road cycling hard core for about 4 years now and I just had
> my first experience with a kidney stone (not fun). The lab results
> came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist is telling me I need to
> cut down on my calcium intake with things like green leafy veggies,
> chocolate (oh no!) and nuts. I'm not convinced this is the problem
> since my diet has not varied for many years and I do not consume lots
> of dairy products and I have about two salads a week. My thought is
> that I am loosing too much sodium and potassium while riding, and not
> replacing it fast enough. This would cause an electrolite imbalance. I
> drink lots of water and sports drinks while riding and about 4 liters
> or H2O daily. Am I not taking enough sodium? Anyone have thoughts on
> this or experienced the same? Any doctors care to comment?

Not a doc, but oft a patient -- have had 4 or 5 episodes of kidney stones,
two resulting in "procedures" to remove and/or crush them (the latter being
lithotripsy; the former being blocked from memory!).

I also had a secondary contributing factor: my bones weren't absorbing
calcium, so they got weak while the calcium collected in my kidneys. Ended
up with stress fractures all over my body (I was a runner back then), due to
low bone density.

What seems to have worked for me is taking a diuretic (HCTZ) and Potassium
Citrate, as I haven't had a stone in years (knock on oxalate). The only
change to my diet, really, was to greatly reduce soda consumption; I just
don't have 'em in the house any more. (So now an occasional Coke is a real
treat.) No milk, but plenty of cheese still.

I was put on Fosamax for a while to rebuild my bone density; taken off it
once back to normal.

I've heard the reports of cyclists and brittle bones recently, so it's
something I should watch, no doubt. The only other exercise I'm doing
nowadays is yoga, which although weigh-bearing isn't exactly strenuous.

I'd advise listening to your doc but also your gut; the dietary changes s/he
recommended aren't that drastic, after all.

Bill "no help but got to tell my riveting tale" S.

06-06-2004, 08:08 AM

> The lab results came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist
> is telling me I need to cut down on my calcium intake with
> things like green leafy veggies, chocolate (oh no!) and nuts.

=v= I am not a doctor or urologist, so nothing I write can even
be considered a second opinion, but this goes counter to what
I've been told and have read for many years. Kidney stones
recur if you don't change your diet, but the diet advice you
got was the opposite of the advice I got! So maybe another
professional opinion is called for.

=v= When protein goes unused, it breaks down into compounds
that take calcium from the body. The compounds are excreted
as urine, passing through the kidneys along the way. This is
why high-protein fad diets are implicated in osteoporosis and
kidney stones.

=v= We have been trained to think of calcium as something we
get from milk, but too often milk contributes to an excess of
protein and isn't a helpful source of calcium. The body needs
calcium, so it's going to need to get it from somewhere, and
the usual advice is: dark green leafy vegetables. (Spinach,
the most popular dark green leafy vegetable, is high in oxalate
to the point where it's not a good source of calcium either,
but others such as chard, collards, and kale are just fine.)

=v= FWIW, I had kidney stones 20 years ago and changed my diet,
and I haven't had them since.
<_Jym_>

P.S.: Cranberry juice is excellent for the health of your
kidneys and urinary tract. Most brands have a ton of bad
corn syrup in them, though. The best value is to buy it in
concentrate form and make your own.

06-06-2004, 08:08 AM

> The lab results came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist
> is telling me I need to cut down on my calcium intake with
> things like green leafy veggies, chocolate (oh no!) and nuts.

=v= I am not a doctor or urologist, so nothing I write can even
be considered a second opinion, but this goes counter to what
I've been told and have read for many years. Kidney stones
recur if you don't change your diet, but the diet advice you
got was the opposite of the advice I got! So maybe another
professional opinion is called for.

=v= When protein goes unused, it breaks down into compounds
that take calcium from the body. The compounds are excreted
as urine, passing through the kidneys along the way. This is
why high-protein fad diets are implicated in osteoporosis and
kidney stones.

=v= We have been trained to think of calcium as something we
get from milk, but too often milk contributes to an excess of
protein and isn't a helpful source of calcium. The body needs
calcium, so it's going to need to get it from somewhere, and
the usual advice is: dark green leafy vegetables. (Spinach,
the most popular dark green leafy vegetable, is high in oxalate
to the point where it's not a good source of calcium either,
but others such as chard, collards, and kale are just fine.)

=v= FWIW, I had kidney stones 20 years ago and changed my diet,
and I haven't had them since.
<_Jym_>

P.S.: Cranberry juice is excellent for the health of your
kidneys and urinary tract. Most brands have a ton of bad
corn syrup in them, though. The best value is to buy it in
concentrate form and make your own.

06-06-2004, 08:08 AM

> The lab results came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist
> is telling me I need to cut down on my calcium intake with
> things like green leafy veggies, chocolate (oh no!) and nuts.

=v= I am not a doctor or urologist, so nothing I write can even
be considered a second opinion, but this goes counter to what
I've been told and have read for many years. Kidney stones
recur if you don't change your diet, but the diet advice you
got was the opposite of the advice I got! So maybe another
professional opinion is called for.

=v= When protein goes unused, it breaks down into compounds
that take calcium from the body. The compounds are excreted
as urine, passing through the kidneys along the way. This is
why high-protein fad diets are implicated in osteoporosis and
kidney stones.

=v= We have been trained to think of calcium as something we
get from milk, but too often milk contributes to an excess of
protein and isn't a helpful source of calcium. The body needs
calcium, so it's going to need to get it from somewhere, and
the usual advice is: dark green leafy vegetables. (Spinach,
the most popular dark green leafy vegetable, is high in oxalate
to the point where it's not a good source of calcium either,
but others such as chard, collards, and kale are just fine.)

=v= FWIW, I had kidney stones 20 years ago and changed my diet,
and I haven't had them since.
<_Jym_>

P.S.: Cranberry juice is excellent for the health of your
kidneys and urinary tract. Most brands have a ton of bad
corn syrup in them, though. The best value is to buy it in
concentrate form and make your own.

06-06-2004, 08:08 AM

> The lab results came back as calcium oxalate. The Urologist
> is telling me I need to cut down on my calcium intake with
> things like green leafy veggies, chocolate (oh no!) and nuts.

=v= I am not a doctor or urologist, so nothing I write can even
be considered a second opinion, but this goes counter to what
I've been told and have read for many years. Kidney stones
recur if you don't change your diet, but the diet advice you
got was the opposite of the advice I got! So maybe another
professional opinion is called for.

=v= When protein goes unused, it breaks down into compounds
that take calcium from the body. The compounds are excreted
as urine, passing through the kidneys along the way. This is
why high-protein fad diets are implicated in osteoporosis and
kidney stones.

=v= We have been trained to think of calcium as something we
get from milk, but too often milk contributes to an excess of
protein and isn't a helpful source of calcium. The body needs
calcium, so it's going to need to get it from somewhere, and
the usual advice is: dark green leafy vegetables. (Spinach,
the most popular dark green leafy vegetable, is high in oxalate
to the point where it's not a good source of calcium either,
but others such as chard, collards, and kale are just fine.)

=v= FWIW, I had kidney stones 20 years ago and changed my diet,
and I haven't had them since.
<_Jym_>

P.S.: Cranberry juice is excellent for the health of your
kidneys and urinary tract. Most brands have a ton of bad
corn syrup in them, though. The best value is to buy it in
concentrate form and make your own.