Holy shatz! Cop stops bicycle! - Page 7

06-12-2004, 07:02 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ch.edu>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>*Reposted, this time to correct groups*
>
>(Prefatory note to Brent: Yes, I'm aware there are many badly-behaved
>motorists. No, I don't think they should get off scot-free, either. Yes,
>I'm aware you're vehemently opposed to bicycle and rider registration. No,
>I don't buy your putative reasons for it. Yes, I know you have to respond
>to this post. No, I won't get in a pissing contest with you.)
>
>I was walking down Bloor St when I saw a copcycle pull over a cyclist for
>running a red light...talk about shock and awe! I've never seen the likes
>of this before. The cop ordered the cyclist to dismount, walk his bike to
>the corner and park it, then lectured the guy for a few minutes ("Red
>lights mean STOP, whether you're in a car or on a bike or on your feet!
>It's the same rules of the road for you as for everyone else who uses
>it!"). The guy was arguing that he bicycles in this area all the time,
>there were no cars coming, etc. The cop (surprise...) told the guy he was
>just warning him this time rather than writing a ticket, and eventually
>let him ride off.
>
>Now, it did my heart a lot of good to see and hear this. There are way too
>many badly-behaved bicyclists in Toronto, as there are in every other
>city. "Hey, lookit me! I'm a car! WHUP, now I'm a pedestrian! WHUP! Now
>I'm neither! Hey, lookit me riding on the wrong side of the street! After
>dark! Without lights or reflectors! Wearing all black! And if you hit me,
>it'll be all your fault, neener neener neener! Whoah, sucks to be you, red
>lights are only for cars!" etc.

You sound upset because the bicyclest is allowed to do things an
automobile driver is not allowed to do. When you see him take advantage
of his greater freedom it upsets you. You want auto drivers to have that
freedom to, or see it taken away from the bicyclest...

I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate, yet is sounds very familliar to
the debate over in rec.boats; there it's motor-boat vs sailboat.
Different vehicles, but the same facts. How much property damage can a
bicycle do compaired to a car? Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall
of the local McDonald's killing and injuring happy meal eaters? Isn't it
true that a bicycle is inherently safer to opperate than a car? If not
for the opperator, then certanly for everyone else?

>I'd like to see a lot more of this kind of police activity, but pragmatic
>questions pretty much scotch the idea. There's no law requiring
>registration of bicycles or carrying an operator's license -- or, for that
>matter, any form of identification at all -- while riding one. Should be,
>but isn't. So what if the cop stops someone who hasn't got ID? What,
>exactly, can the cop do? And even if s/he succeeds in writing a ticket,
>what's to motivate the recipient to pay it? There'll be no demerit points
>on his driver's license (which s/he may not even have). There'll be no
>increase in insurance premiums (which s/he's not required to carry).
>There'll be no denial of renewed registration (also not required).
>
>Be nice if cops could/would (they probably can) write tickets and impound
>bicycles until the ticket is paid.

Here you claim that the rules that bicyclest must obey are
"unenforceable" because there is no license to revoke, insurance premium
to jack up or points to accrue. However, there are many laws that people
are expected to obey that fit the same profile; shoplifting for example.
A shopper isn't required to carry a "shopping license" and won't have
any insurance problems or get any points if he is caught stealing a loaf
of bread.

I'm not saying that bicyclests shouldn't be licensed, but I am saying
that nothing you present here is a case for why they should.

06-12-2004, 07:53 AM

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Daniel T. wrote:

> >"Hey, lookit me! I'm a car! WHUP, now I'm a pedestrian! WHUP! Now
> >I'm neither! Hey, lookit me riding on the wrong side of the street! After
> >dark! Without lights or reflectors! Wearing all black! And if you hit me,
> >it'll be all your fault, neener neener neener! Whoah, sucks to be you, red
> >lights are only for cars!" etc.
>
> You sound upset because the bicyclest is allowed to do things an
> automobile driver is not allowed to do

No, see, that's just it: Bicyclists *AREN'T* allowed to do things (like
run red lights) that cars aren't allowed to do. The guy who inspired my
original post got ordered off his bike and lectured by a cop; sounded like
next time the same cop sees him do the same thing, it'll be a ticket.

> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate

That much is obvious. Such a "car vs. bicycle debate" is pointless.
Roadway safety is EVERY road user's job, whether they be on foot, on a
bike, on rollerblades, in a car, on a motorcycle...

> How much property damage can a bicycle do compaired to a car?

"Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
and damages can be quite large.

> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
> and injuring happy meal eaters?

They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
venue, same effect.

> Isn't it true that a bicycle is inherently safer to opperate than a car?

Probably not.

> you claim that the rules that bicyclest must obey are "unenforceable"
> because there is no license to revoke, insurance premium to jack up or
> points to accrue.

That's right.

-Stern

06-12-2004, 07:53 AM

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Daniel T. wrote:

> >"Hey, lookit me! I'm a car! WHUP, now I'm a pedestrian! WHUP! Now
> >I'm neither! Hey, lookit me riding on the wrong side of the street! After
> >dark! Without lights or reflectors! Wearing all black! And if you hit me,
> >it'll be all your fault, neener neener neener! Whoah, sucks to be you, red
> >lights are only for cars!" etc.
>
> You sound upset because the bicyclest is allowed to do things an
> automobile driver is not allowed to do

No, see, that's just it: Bicyclists *AREN'T* allowed to do things (like
run red lights) that cars aren't allowed to do. The guy who inspired my
original post got ordered off his bike and lectured by a cop; sounded like
next time the same cop sees him do the same thing, it'll be a ticket.

> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate

That much is obvious. Such a "car vs. bicycle debate" is pointless.
Roadway safety is EVERY road user's job, whether they be on foot, on a
bike, on rollerblades, in a car, on a motorcycle...

> How much property damage can a bicycle do compaired to a car?

"Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
and damages can be quite large.

> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
> and injuring happy meal eaters?

They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
venue, same effect.

> Isn't it true that a bicycle is inherently safer to opperate than a car?

Probably not.

> you claim that the rules that bicyclest must obey are "unenforceable"
> because there is no license to revoke, insurance premium to jack up or
> points to accrue.

That's right.

-Stern

06-12-2004, 07:53 AM

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Daniel T. wrote:

> >"Hey, lookit me! I'm a car! WHUP, now I'm a pedestrian! WHUP! Now
> >I'm neither! Hey, lookit me riding on the wrong side of the street! After
> >dark! Without lights or reflectors! Wearing all black! And if you hit me,
> >it'll be all your fault, neener neener neener! Whoah, sucks to be you, red
> >lights are only for cars!" etc.
>
> You sound upset because the bicyclest is allowed to do things an
> automobile driver is not allowed to do

No, see, that's just it: Bicyclists *AREN'T* allowed to do things (like
run red lights) that cars aren't allowed to do. The guy who inspired my
original post got ordered off his bike and lectured by a cop; sounded like
next time the same cop sees him do the same thing, it'll be a ticket.

> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate

That much is obvious. Such a "car vs. bicycle debate" is pointless.
Roadway safety is EVERY road user's job, whether they be on foot, on a
bike, on rollerblades, in a car, on a motorcycle...

> How much property damage can a bicycle do compaired to a car?

"Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
and damages can be quite large.

> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
> and injuring happy meal eaters?

They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
venue, same effect.

> Isn't it true that a bicycle is inherently safer to opperate than a car?

Probably not.

> you claim that the rules that bicyclest must obey are "unenforceable"
> because there is no license to revoke, insurance premium to jack up or
> points to accrue.

That's right.

-Stern

06-12-2004, 07:53 AM

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Daniel T. wrote:

> >"Hey, lookit me! I'm a car! WHUP, now I'm a pedestrian! WHUP! Now
> >I'm neither! Hey, lookit me riding on the wrong side of the street! After
> >dark! Without lights or reflectors! Wearing all black! And if you hit me,
> >it'll be all your fault, neener neener neener! Whoah, sucks to be you, red
> >lights are only for cars!" etc.
>
> You sound upset because the bicyclest is allowed to do things an
> automobile driver is not allowed to do

No, see, that's just it: Bicyclists *AREN'T* allowed to do things (like
run red lights) that cars aren't allowed to do. The guy who inspired my
original post got ordered off his bike and lectured by a cop; sounded like
next time the same cop sees him do the same thing, it'll be a ticket.

> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate

That much is obvious. Such a "car vs. bicycle debate" is pointless.
Roadway safety is EVERY road user's job, whether they be on foot, on a
bike, on rollerblades, in a car, on a motorcycle...

> How much property damage can a bicycle do compaired to a car?

"Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
and damages can be quite large.

> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
> and injuring happy meal eaters?

They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
venue, same effect.

> Isn't it true that a bicycle is inherently safer to opperate than a car?

Probably not.

> you claim that the rules that bicyclest must obey are "unenforceable"
> because there is no license to revoke, insurance premium to jack up or
> points to accrue.

That's right.

-Stern

06-12-2004, 07:53 AM

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Daniel T. wrote:

> >"Hey, lookit me! I'm a car! WHUP, now I'm a pedestrian! WHUP! Now
> >I'm neither! Hey, lookit me riding on the wrong side of the street! After
> >dark! Without lights or reflectors! Wearing all black! And if you hit me,
> >it'll be all your fault, neener neener neener! Whoah, sucks to be you, red
> >lights are only for cars!" etc.
>
> You sound upset because the bicyclest is allowed to do things an
> automobile driver is not allowed to do

No, see, that's just it: Bicyclists *AREN'T* allowed to do things (like
run red lights) that cars aren't allowed to do. The guy who inspired my
original post got ordered off his bike and lectured by a cop; sounded like
next time the same cop sees him do the same thing, it'll be a ticket.

> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate

That much is obvious. Such a "car vs. bicycle debate" is pointless.
Roadway safety is EVERY road user's job, whether they be on foot, on a
bike, on rollerblades, in a car, on a motorcycle...

> How much property damage can a bicycle do compaired to a car?

"Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
and damages can be quite large.

> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
> and injuring happy meal eaters?

They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
venue, same effect.

> Isn't it true that a bicycle is inherently safer to opperate than a car?

Probably not.

> you claim that the rules that bicyclest must obey are "unenforceable"
> because there is no license to revoke, insurance premium to jack up or
> points to accrue.

That's right.

-Stern

06-12-2004, 11:48 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ich.edu>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> "Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
> bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
> and damages can be quite large.
>
>> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
>> and injuring happy meal eaters?
>
> They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
> multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
> venue, same effect.

I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion before,
but I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents where this
has occurred. Has anyone? And if so, how often does it happen?

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06-12-2004, 11:48 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ich.edu>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> "Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
> bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
> and damages can be quite large.
>
>> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
>> and injuring happy meal eaters?
>
> They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
> multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
> venue, same effect.

I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion before,
but I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents where this
has occurred. Has anyone? And if so, how often does it happen?

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-12-2004, 11:48 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ich.edu>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> "Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
> bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
> and damages can be quite large.
>
>> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
>> and injuring happy meal eaters?
>
> They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
> multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
> venue, same effect.

I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion before,
but I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents where this
has occurred. Has anyone? And if so, how often does it happen?

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-12-2004, 11:48 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ich.edu>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> "Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define "cause". When a
> bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the total tab in injuries
> and damages can be quite large.
>
>> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local McDonald's killing
>> and injuring happy meal eaters?
>
> They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
> multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them. Different
> venue, same effect.

I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion before,
but I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents where this
has occurred. Has anyone? And if so, how often does it happen?

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca