Holy shatz! Cop stops bicycle! - Page 84

06-18-2004, 12:59 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ch.edu>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> writes:

>> Mr. Stern, have you ever ridden a bike?
>
> Certainly. I ride mine -- on the street, in traffic -- frequently when
> weather permits.

If nothing else, you are amusing.

"weather permits." Pffft.

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-18-2004, 05:58 AM

In rec.autos.driving, Tom Keats said:

>Arrogance is expressed by all kinds of /some/ (but not all)
>road/street users.
>
>But so is co-operation, courtesy and consideration. Those
>things just don't get noticed as much.

I notice. And when it happens, I give a friendly "thank you" wave to the driver
who helped me out. But you're right, most people don't notice - or, perhaps more
correctly, they don't see it as courtesy and cooperation; they see it as their
due. These are the people who think that, because their turn signal is
activated, they somehow have the RIGHT to merge in wherever they want; if you
slow down and allow them into the lane in front of you, they don't appreciate it
as a small favor - they think you owe it to them.

>Another, earlier subthread heretofore discusses pedestrians
>who get half-way across a street and stop, just to stop the
>car traffic, just because they can. On the other hand, I
>distinctly recall occasions when a friend of mine had knee
>surgery, was on crutches, and drivers aimed and accelerated
>at him because they thought he was taking too long crossing
>the -- not a street, but a back access alley. I guess the
>drivers thought he was being 'arrogant' for trying to get
>around while being gimped.

As I said earlier, it's easy to tell the truly arrogant from the merely slow.
Crutches are a dead giveaway, don't you think?

>As a non-driving, transportational cyclist, I've had lots of
>driver arrogance shoved in my face, when I didn't deserve it.

As a sometime pedalcyclist, I have had lots of pedalcyclist arrogance shoved in
my face, also. Like the pedalcyclists who seem to feel that stop signs and
redlights do not apply to them.

So what?

>Driver Arrogance is the most prevalent and pervasive kind of
>on-the-road arrogance

>I bet not many drivers have had as much crap hurled at them
>from, or have been passed-&-cut-off by cyclists, or have been
>threateningly, on-comingly aimed-at in their own lane, as the
>other way around.

OF COURSE you're going to see more arrogant behavior from motorists - THERE ARE
MORE MOTORISTS ON THE ROAD. This makes raw number comparisons meaningless. What
you need to do is divide the number of arrogant drivers by the total number of
drivers, and compare this ratio to the arrogant pedalcyclists ratio.

>because drivers have all got at least
>2 1/2 tons of aces, and good acceleration up their sleeves.

So? Pedalcyclists have Kryptonite locks and greater maneuverability; they can
ride on the sidewalk or a bike path or even into a shopping mall to escape a
motorist bent on revenge.

Tell me, how often do you see motorists blocking the road to bicycle traffic the
way Critical Mass does? This is the epitome of arrogance.

>It actually could readily be said that private car drivers are
>the /most/ arrogant group of road users.

Sure, you could say it - it just wouldn't be true.

--
Sloth is the first deadly sin.

06-18-2004, 05:58 AM

In rec.autos.driving, Tom Keats said:

>Arrogance is expressed by all kinds of /some/ (but not all)
>road/street users.
>
>But so is co-operation, courtesy and consideration. Those
>things just don't get noticed as much.

I notice. And when it happens, I give a friendly "thank you" wave to the driver
who helped me out. But you're right, most people don't notice - or, perhaps more
correctly, they don't see it as courtesy and cooperation; they see it as their
due. These are the people who think that, because their turn signal is
activated, they somehow have the RIGHT to merge in wherever they want; if you
slow down and allow them into the lane in front of you, they don't appreciate it
as a small favor - they think you owe it to them.

>Another, earlier subthread heretofore discusses pedestrians
>who get half-way across a street and stop, just to stop the
>car traffic, just because they can. On the other hand, I
>distinctly recall occasions when a friend of mine had knee
>surgery, was on crutches, and drivers aimed and accelerated
>at him because they thought he was taking too long crossing
>the -- not a street, but a back access alley. I guess the
>drivers thought he was being 'arrogant' for trying to get
>around while being gimped.

As I said earlier, it's easy to tell the truly arrogant from the merely slow.
Crutches are a dead giveaway, don't you think?

>As a non-driving, transportational cyclist, I've had lots of
>driver arrogance shoved in my face, when I didn't deserve it.

As a sometime pedalcyclist, I have had lots of pedalcyclist arrogance shoved in
my face, also. Like the pedalcyclists who seem to feel that stop signs and
redlights do not apply to them.

So what?

>Driver Arrogance is the most prevalent and pervasive kind of
>on-the-road arrogance

>I bet not many drivers have had as much crap hurled at them
>from, or have been passed-&-cut-off by cyclists, or have been
>threateningly, on-comingly aimed-at in their own lane, as the
>other way around.

OF COURSE you're going to see more arrogant behavior from motorists - THERE ARE
MORE MOTORISTS ON THE ROAD. This makes raw number comparisons meaningless. What
you need to do is divide the number of arrogant drivers by the total number of
drivers, and compare this ratio to the arrogant pedalcyclists ratio.

>because drivers have all got at least
>2 1/2 tons of aces, and good acceleration up their sleeves.

So? Pedalcyclists have Kryptonite locks and greater maneuverability; they can
ride on the sidewalk or a bike path or even into a shopping mall to escape a
motorist bent on revenge.

Tell me, how often do you see motorists blocking the road to bicycle traffic the
way Critical Mass does? This is the epitome of arrogance.

>It actually could readily be said that private car drivers are
>the /most/ arrogant group of road users.

Sure, you could say it - it just wouldn't be true.

--
Sloth is the first deadly sin.

06-18-2004, 05:58 AM

In rec.autos.driving, Tom Keats said:

>Arrogance is expressed by all kinds of /some/ (but not all)
>road/street users.
>
>But so is co-operation, courtesy and consideration. Those
>things just don't get noticed as much.

I notice. And when it happens, I give a friendly "thank you" wave to the driver
who helped me out. But you're right, most people don't notice - or, perhaps more
correctly, they don't see it as courtesy and cooperation; they see it as their
due. These are the people who think that, because their turn signal is
activated, they somehow have the RIGHT to merge in wherever they want; if you
slow down and allow them into the lane in front of you, they don't appreciate it
as a small favor - they think you owe it to them.

>Another, earlier subthread heretofore discusses pedestrians
>who get half-way across a street and stop, just to stop the
>car traffic, just because they can. On the other hand, I
>distinctly recall occasions when a friend of mine had knee
>surgery, was on crutches, and drivers aimed and accelerated
>at him because they thought he was taking too long crossing
>the -- not a street, but a back access alley. I guess the
>drivers thought he was being 'arrogant' for trying to get
>around while being gimped.

As I said earlier, it's easy to tell the truly arrogant from the merely slow.
Crutches are a dead giveaway, don't you think?

>As a non-driving, transportational cyclist, I've had lots of
>driver arrogance shoved in my face, when I didn't deserve it.

As a sometime pedalcyclist, I have had lots of pedalcyclist arrogance shoved in
my face, also. Like the pedalcyclists who seem to feel that stop signs and
redlights do not apply to them.

So what?

>Driver Arrogance is the most prevalent and pervasive kind of
>on-the-road arrogance

>I bet not many drivers have had as much crap hurled at them
>from, or have been passed-&-cut-off by cyclists, or have been
>threateningly, on-comingly aimed-at in their own lane, as the
>other way around.

OF COURSE you're going to see more arrogant behavior from motorists - THERE ARE
MORE MOTORISTS ON THE ROAD. This makes raw number comparisons meaningless. What
you need to do is divide the number of arrogant drivers by the total number of
drivers, and compare this ratio to the arrogant pedalcyclists ratio.

>because drivers have all got at least
>2 1/2 tons of aces, and good acceleration up their sleeves.

So? Pedalcyclists have Kryptonite locks and greater maneuverability; they can
ride on the sidewalk or a bike path or even into a shopping mall to escape a
motorist bent on revenge.

Tell me, how often do you see motorists blocking the road to bicycle traffic the
way Critical Mass does? This is the epitome of arrogance.

>It actually could readily be said that private car drivers are
>the /most/ arrogant group of road users.

Sure, you could say it - it just wouldn't be true.

--
Sloth is the first deadly sin.

06-18-2004, 05:58 AM

In rec.autos.driving, Tom Keats said:

>Arrogance is expressed by all kinds of /some/ (but not all)
>road/street users.
>
>But so is co-operation, courtesy and consideration. Those
>things just don't get noticed as much.

I notice. And when it happens, I give a friendly "thank you" wave to the driver
who helped me out. But you're right, most people don't notice - or, perhaps more
correctly, they don't see it as courtesy and cooperation; they see it as their
due. These are the people who think that, because their turn signal is
activated, they somehow have the RIGHT to merge in wherever they want; if you
slow down and allow them into the lane in front of you, they don't appreciate it
as a small favor - they think you owe it to them.

>Another, earlier subthread heretofore discusses pedestrians
>who get half-way across a street and stop, just to stop the
>car traffic, just because they can. On the other hand, I
>distinctly recall occasions when a friend of mine had knee
>surgery, was on crutches, and drivers aimed and accelerated
>at him because they thought he was taking too long crossing
>the -- not a street, but a back access alley. I guess the
>drivers thought he was being 'arrogant' for trying to get
>around while being gimped.

As I said earlier, it's easy to tell the truly arrogant from the merely slow.
Crutches are a dead giveaway, don't you think?

>As a non-driving, transportational cyclist, I've had lots of
>driver arrogance shoved in my face, when I didn't deserve it.

As a sometime pedalcyclist, I have had lots of pedalcyclist arrogance shoved in
my face, also. Like the pedalcyclists who seem to feel that stop signs and
redlights do not apply to them.

So what?

>Driver Arrogance is the most prevalent and pervasive kind of
>on-the-road arrogance

>I bet not many drivers have had as much crap hurled at them
>from, or have been passed-&-cut-off by cyclists, or have been
>threateningly, on-comingly aimed-at in their own lane, as the
>other way around.

OF COURSE you're going to see more arrogant behavior from motorists - THERE ARE
MORE MOTORISTS ON THE ROAD. This makes raw number comparisons meaningless. What
you need to do is divide the number of arrogant drivers by the total number of
drivers, and compare this ratio to the arrogant pedalcyclists ratio.

>because drivers have all got at least
>2 1/2 tons of aces, and good acceleration up their sleeves.

So? Pedalcyclists have Kryptonite locks and greater maneuverability; they can
ride on the sidewalk or a bike path or even into a shopping mall to escape a
motorist bent on revenge.

Tell me, how often do you see motorists blocking the road to bicycle traffic the
way Critical Mass does? This is the epitome of arrogance.

>It actually could readily be said that private car drivers are
>the /most/ arrogant group of road users.

Sure, you could say it - it just wouldn't be true.

--
Sloth is the first deadly sin.

06-18-2004, 05:58 AM

In rec.autos.driving, Tom Keats said:

>Arrogance is expressed by all kinds of /some/ (but not all)
>road/street users.
>
>But so is co-operation, courtesy and consideration. Those
>things just don't get noticed as much.

I notice. And when it happens, I give a friendly "thank you" wave to the driver
who helped me out. But you're right, most people don't notice - or, perhaps more
correctly, they don't see it as courtesy and cooperation; they see it as their
due. These are the people who think that, because their turn signal is
activated, they somehow have the RIGHT to merge in wherever they want; if you
slow down and allow them into the lane in front of you, they don't appreciate it
as a small favor - they think you owe it to them.

>Another, earlier subthread heretofore discusses pedestrians
>who get half-way across a street and stop, just to stop the
>car traffic, just because they can. On the other hand, I
>distinctly recall occasions when a friend of mine had knee
>surgery, was on crutches, and drivers aimed and accelerated
>at him because they thought he was taking too long crossing
>the -- not a street, but a back access alley. I guess the
>drivers thought he was being 'arrogant' for trying to get
>around while being gimped.

As I said earlier, it's easy to tell the truly arrogant from the merely slow.
Crutches are a dead giveaway, don't you think?

>As a non-driving, transportational cyclist, I've had lots of
>driver arrogance shoved in my face, when I didn't deserve it.

As a sometime pedalcyclist, I have had lots of pedalcyclist arrogance shoved in
my face, also. Like the pedalcyclists who seem to feel that stop signs and
redlights do not apply to them.

So what?

>Driver Arrogance is the most prevalent and pervasive kind of
>on-the-road arrogance

>I bet not many drivers have had as much crap hurled at them
>from, or have been passed-&-cut-off by cyclists, or have been
>threateningly, on-comingly aimed-at in their own lane, as the
>other way around.

OF COURSE you're going to see more arrogant behavior from motorists - THERE ARE
MORE MOTORISTS ON THE ROAD. This makes raw number comparisons meaningless. What
you need to do is divide the number of arrogant drivers by the total number of
drivers, and compare this ratio to the arrogant pedalcyclists ratio.

>because drivers have all got at least
>2 1/2 tons of aces, and good acceleration up their sleeves.

So? Pedalcyclists have Kryptonite locks and greater maneuverability; they can
ride on the sidewalk or a bike path or even into a shopping mall to escape a
motorist bent on revenge.

Tell me, how often do you see motorists blocking the road to bicycle traffic the
way Critical Mass does? This is the epitome of arrogance.

>It actually could readily be said that private car drivers are
>the /most/ arrogant group of road users.

Sure, you could say it - it just wouldn't be true.

--
Sloth is the first deadly sin.

07-05-2004, 09:29 PM

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Tom Keats:

>Now, I'm just a poor guy,
[...]
>And since I live in Vancouver BC,

Ouch, I feel your pain. Those two don't mix well at the best of
times. I'm making 25 racks of high society this year or I'm out.
:}

>With my current low financial status, I readily submit that
>cyclists like me are most definitely /not/ willing to take
>chances such as bolting into a busy intersection, or any
>other infraction that might result in an expensive fine.
>Or worse, medical expenses incurred by being clobbered by
>a car. I've already spent top-dollar, ensuring that my
>bike and myself are perfectly legal.

Wow! A considerate cyclist who obeys the traffic laws and doesn't
cycle on the sidewalks/Xwalks like some asswipes I see? A first!

>On the streets, drivers find me considerate, and they
>appreciate my consideration (even though I just don't want
>them to clobber me.) I often take to the side-streets.
>Those can be dangerous, because they're narrow. Anyhow,
>I've observed how drivers on narrow side-streets are willing
>to dive into gaps between parked cars, to let oncoming cars
>go by.

Better than a head-on collision or an impasse...

>I do the same thing as the drivers, and often get an
>appreciative smile & wave from them as they roll by. That
>feels really good to me. But it can be a dangerous practice
>for a cyclist because if improperly done, it could entail
>disappearing from view (between parked cars), and then suddenly
>popping-out into the traffic stream again.

So you pop your head over your shoulder to check for traffic...

>When I'm on the big arterial streets, I might get yelled-at,
>honked-at, spat-at, have burning cigarette butts or McDonald's
>grunge tossed at me, or all manner of abuse directed at me --

You would only deserve that if you were riding on the sidewalk.
Funny how the asswipes often get more consideration than the good
people, eh?

>Tell ya what, though -- if I had to deal with the expense of
>licensing and registration, I might as well sell my bike for
>food, go on the dole, and live on your tax money.

I don't pay income taxes, but let's not get into that... ;}

>Inflicting mandatory licensing & registration on cyclists
>wouuld be, besides an expensive and reduntant inflation of
>governmental bureaucracy, an unconscionable expropriation
>of /your/ right to freedom of movement.

No more so than the same formalities for motor vehicles, imo,
especially here in B.C. where you practically *need* a car (kudos
to you for managing to get by without one!).

>Everyone has the right to ride a bicycle,

This right should be curtailed to a privilege, imo, subject to the
same principles behind driving being a privilege, including the
moral and ethical obligation on the part of the state to provide
*better than adequate* mass transit over its territory (read
integrated railroads).

>whether or not they actually want to. Some of us want to.

I love cycling, but this isn't the most conducive city to it.
Nonetheless, if one avoids the major high-speed arterials (50 kph
speed limit is essentially meaningless on these, used only for
revenue collection) and heavy traffic, it can still be quite a
pleasant endeavour, even in this very large and rapidly growing
metropolis.

>Some of us have to. Especially with
>the current high (and getting higher) gasoline prices.

They're not that high. Try the (European) Soviet Union.

--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
'91 mx6gt, white, 5sp MT, V1, CB

07-05-2004, 09:29 PM

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Tom Keats:

>Now, I'm just a poor guy,
[...]
>And since I live in Vancouver BC,

Ouch, I feel your pain. Those two don't mix well at the best of
times. I'm making 25 racks of high society this year or I'm out.
:}

>With my current low financial status, I readily submit that
>cyclists like me are most definitely /not/ willing to take
>chances such as bolting into a busy intersection, or any
>other infraction that might result in an expensive fine.
>Or worse, medical expenses incurred by being clobbered by
>a car. I've already spent top-dollar, ensuring that my
>bike and myself are perfectly legal.

Wow! A considerate cyclist who obeys the traffic laws and doesn't
cycle on the sidewalks/Xwalks like some asswipes I see? A first!

>On the streets, drivers find me considerate, and they
>appreciate my consideration (even though I just don't want
>them to clobber me.) I often take to the side-streets.
>Those can be dangerous, because they're narrow. Anyhow,
>I've observed how drivers on narrow side-streets are willing
>to dive into gaps between parked cars, to let oncoming cars
>go by.

Better than a head-on collision or an impasse...

>I do the same thing as the drivers, and often get an
>appreciative smile & wave from them as they roll by. That
>feels really good to me. But it can be a dangerous practice
>for a cyclist because if improperly done, it could entail
>disappearing from view (between parked cars), and then suddenly
>popping-out into the traffic stream again.

So you pop your head over your shoulder to check for traffic...

>When I'm on the big arterial streets, I might get yelled-at,
>honked-at, spat-at, have burning cigarette butts or McDonald's
>grunge tossed at me, or all manner of abuse directed at me --

You would only deserve that if you were riding on the sidewalk.
Funny how the asswipes often get more consideration than the good
people, eh?

>Tell ya what, though -- if I had to deal with the expense of
>licensing and registration, I might as well sell my bike for
>food, go on the dole, and live on your tax money.

I don't pay income taxes, but let's not get into that... ;}

>Inflicting mandatory licensing & registration on cyclists
>wouuld be, besides an expensive and reduntant inflation of
>governmental bureaucracy, an unconscionable expropriation
>of /your/ right to freedom of movement.

No more so than the same formalities for motor vehicles, imo,
especially here in B.C. where you practically *need* a car (kudos
to you for managing to get by without one!).

>Everyone has the right to ride a bicycle,

This right should be curtailed to a privilege, imo, subject to the
same principles behind driving being a privilege, including the
moral and ethical obligation on the part of the state to provide
*better than adequate* mass transit over its territory (read
integrated railroads).

>whether or not they actually want to. Some of us want to.

I love cycling, but this isn't the most conducive city to it.
Nonetheless, if one avoids the major high-speed arterials (50 kph
speed limit is essentially meaningless on these, used only for
revenue collection) and heavy traffic, it can still be quite a
pleasant endeavour, even in this very large and rapidly growing
metropolis.

>Some of us have to. Especially with
>the current high (and getting higher) gasoline prices.

They're not that high. Try the (European) Soviet Union.

--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
'91 mx6gt, white, 5sp MT, V1, CB

07-05-2004, 09:29 PM

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Tom Keats:

>Now, I'm just a poor guy,
[...]
>And since I live in Vancouver BC,

Ouch, I feel your pain. Those two don't mix well at the best of
times. I'm making 25 racks of high society this year or I'm out.
:}

>With my current low financial status, I readily submit that
>cyclists like me are most definitely /not/ willing to take
>chances such as bolting into a busy intersection, or any
>other infraction that might result in an expensive fine.
>Or worse, medical expenses incurred by being clobbered by
>a car. I've already spent top-dollar, ensuring that my
>bike and myself are perfectly legal.

Wow! A considerate cyclist who obeys the traffic laws and doesn't
cycle on the sidewalks/Xwalks like some asswipes I see? A first!

>On the streets, drivers find me considerate, and they
>appreciate my consideration (even though I just don't want
>them to clobber me.) I often take to the side-streets.
>Those can be dangerous, because they're narrow. Anyhow,
>I've observed how drivers on narrow side-streets are willing
>to dive into gaps between parked cars, to let oncoming cars
>go by.

Better than a head-on collision or an impasse...

>I do the same thing as the drivers, and often get an
>appreciative smile & wave from them as they roll by. That
>feels really good to me. But it can be a dangerous practice
>for a cyclist because if improperly done, it could entail
>disappearing from view (between parked cars), and then suddenly
>popping-out into the traffic stream again.

So you pop your head over your shoulder to check for traffic...

>When I'm on the big arterial streets, I might get yelled-at,
>honked-at, spat-at, have burning cigarette butts or McDonald's
>grunge tossed at me, or all manner of abuse directed at me --

You would only deserve that if you were riding on the sidewalk.
Funny how the asswipes often get more consideration than the good
people, eh?

>Tell ya what, though -- if I had to deal with the expense of
>licensing and registration, I might as well sell my bike for
>food, go on the dole, and live on your tax money.

I don't pay income taxes, but let's not get into that... ;}

>Inflicting mandatory licensing & registration on cyclists
>wouuld be, besides an expensive and reduntant inflation of
>governmental bureaucracy, an unconscionable expropriation
>of /your/ right to freedom of movement.

No more so than the same formalities for motor vehicles, imo,
especially here in B.C. where you practically *need* a car (kudos
to you for managing to get by without one!).

>Everyone has the right to ride a bicycle,

This right should be curtailed to a privilege, imo, subject to the
same principles behind driving being a privilege, including the
moral and ethical obligation on the part of the state to provide
*better than adequate* mass transit over its territory (read
integrated railroads).

>whether or not they actually want to. Some of us want to.

I love cycling, but this isn't the most conducive city to it.
Nonetheless, if one avoids the major high-speed arterials (50 kph
speed limit is essentially meaningless on these, used only for
revenue collection) and heavy traffic, it can still be quite a
pleasant endeavour, even in this very large and rapidly growing
metropolis.

>Some of us have to. Especially with
>the current high (and getting higher) gasoline prices.

They're not that high. Try the (European) Soviet Union.

--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
'91 mx6gt, white, 5sp MT, V1, CB

07-05-2004, 09:29 PM

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Tom Keats:

>Now, I'm just a poor guy,
[...]
>And since I live in Vancouver BC,

Ouch, I feel your pain. Those two don't mix well at the best of
times. I'm making 25 racks of high society this year or I'm out.
:}

>With my current low financial status, I readily submit that
>cyclists like me are most definitely /not/ willing to take
>chances such as bolting into a busy intersection, or any
>other infraction that might result in an expensive fine.
>Or worse, medical expenses incurred by being clobbered by
>a car. I've already spent top-dollar, ensuring that my
>bike and myself are perfectly legal.

Wow! A considerate cyclist who obeys the traffic laws and doesn't
cycle on the sidewalks/Xwalks like some asswipes I see? A first!

>On the streets, drivers find me considerate, and they
>appreciate my consideration (even though I just don't want
>them to clobber me.) I often take to the side-streets.
>Those can be dangerous, because they're narrow. Anyhow,
>I've observed how drivers on narrow side-streets are willing
>to dive into gaps between parked cars, to let oncoming cars
>go by.

Better than a head-on collision or an impasse...

>I do the same thing as the drivers, and often get an
>appreciative smile & wave from them as they roll by. That
>feels really good to me. But it can be a dangerous practice
>for a cyclist because if improperly done, it could entail
>disappearing from view (between parked cars), and then suddenly
>popping-out into the traffic stream again.

So you pop your head over your shoulder to check for traffic...

>When I'm on the big arterial streets, I might get yelled-at,
>honked-at, spat-at, have burning cigarette butts or McDonald's
>grunge tossed at me, or all manner of abuse directed at me --

You would only deserve that if you were riding on the sidewalk.
Funny how the asswipes often get more consideration than the good
people, eh?

>Tell ya what, though -- if I had to deal with the expense of
>licensing and registration, I might as well sell my bike for
>food, go on the dole, and live on your tax money.

I don't pay income taxes, but let's not get into that... ;}

>Inflicting mandatory licensing & registration on cyclists
>wouuld be, besides an expensive and reduntant inflation of
>governmental bureaucracy, an unconscionable expropriation
>of /your/ right to freedom of movement.

No more so than the same formalities for motor vehicles, imo,
especially here in B.C. where you practically *need* a car (kudos
to you for managing to get by without one!).

>Everyone has the right to ride a bicycle,

This right should be curtailed to a privilege, imo, subject to the
same principles behind driving being a privilege, including the
moral and ethical obligation on the part of the state to provide
*better than adequate* mass transit over its territory (read
integrated railroads).

>whether or not they actually want to. Some of us want to.

I love cycling, but this isn't the most conducive city to it.
Nonetheless, if one avoids the major high-speed arterials (50 kph
speed limit is essentially meaningless on these, used only for
revenue collection) and heavy traffic, it can still be quite a
pleasant endeavour, even in this very large and rapidly growing
metropolis.

>Some of us have to. Especially with
>the current high (and getting higher) gasoline prices.

They're not that high. Try the (European) Soviet Union.

--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
'91 mx6gt, white, 5sp MT, V1, CB