age for child trailers - Page 4

06-29-2004, 09:36 AM

David Kerber wrote:

> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...
>
> ...
>
>
>>>I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being available for
>>>children under about one year of age for similar reasons.
>>
>>... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one year old has
>>ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in a bike trailer! If it's
>>out there, I certainly haven't seen it. And if it's happened, it's
>>certainly very, very rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.
>
>
> Probably because people carrying kids under 1 year old in a trailer are
> also very, very rare.

Of course, that's part of it. Trailers themselves are not common. But
what evidence is there of _any_ kids getting seriously hurt while riding
on parents' bikes?

Somehow, the Safety Industry (or its subsidiary, Handwringers
Incorporated) seems to think it knows so much more than any given parent
about what is safe and what is dangerous.

They seem to envision a parent negligently tossing a child onto a rear
rack, held down by a loose bungie cord. In my experience, parents are
quite cautious with kids on their bikes, more so than with kids in their
cars.

>
>>It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
>>as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
>>towing it, it will be "dangerous."
>
>
> That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8 mph, and can
> stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike, you could easily double
> that speed, and triple it on not much of a hill.

.... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

FWIW, if a parent thinks 6 to 8 mph is all that's safe, they can ride
their bike at 6 to 8 mph. There is nothing specific about being moved
by a bike that makes a trailer dangerous.

But in my limited experience (and the considerably greater experience of
some of my friends) trailers are very stable indeed, no matter what the
speed.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

06-29-2004, 10:25 AM

In article <40e1a8c3$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> >>It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> >>as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> >>towing it, it will be "dangerous."
> >
> >
> > That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8 mph, and can
> > stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike, you could easily double
> > that speed, and triple it on not much of a hill.
>
> ... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

Hardly. It's simply that a higher-speed tip-over or crash is likely to
cause more injury than a lower-speed one, and pulling it on a bike is
like to be faster than walking or running. That's all I'm saying. It
wouldn't surprise me a bit if the tip-over rate when being pushed by a
person is actually higher than when being pulled by a bike, but the
injuries sustained in the bike tip-over are likely to be worse due to
the higher speeds.

> You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

06-29-2004, 10:25 AM

In article <40e1a8c3$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> >>It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> >>as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> >>towing it, it will be "dangerous."
> >
> >
> > That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8 mph, and can
> > stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike, you could easily double
> > that speed, and triple it on not much of a hill.
>
> ... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

Hardly. It's simply that a higher-speed tip-over or crash is likely to
cause more injury than a lower-speed one, and pulling it on a bike is
like to be faster than walking or running. That's all I'm saying. It
wouldn't surprise me a bit if the tip-over rate when being pushed by a
person is actually higher than when being pulled by a bike, but the
injuries sustained in the bike tip-over are likely to be worse due to
the higher speeds.

> You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

06-29-2004, 10:25 AM

In article <40e1a8c3$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> >>It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> >>as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> >>towing it, it will be "dangerous."
> >
> >
> > That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8 mph, and can
> > stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike, you could easily double
> > that speed, and triple it on not much of a hill.
>
> ... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

Hardly. It's simply that a higher-speed tip-over or crash is likely to
cause more injury than a lower-speed one, and pulling it on a bike is
like to be faster than walking or running. That's all I'm saying. It
wouldn't surprise me a bit if the tip-over rate when being pushed by a
person is actually higher than when being pulled by a bike, but the
injuries sustained in the bike tip-over are likely to be worse due to
the higher speeds.

> You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

06-29-2004, 10:25 AM

In article <40e1a8c3$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> >>It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> >>as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> >>towing it, it will be "dangerous."
> >
> >
> > That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8 mph, and can
> > stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike, you could easily double
> > that speed, and triple it on not much of a hill.
>
> ... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

Hardly. It's simply that a higher-speed tip-over or crash is likely to
cause more injury than a lower-speed one, and pulling it on a bike is
like to be faster than walking or running. That's all I'm saying. It
wouldn't surprise me a bit if the tip-over rate when being pushed by a
person is actually higher than when being pulled by a bike, but the
injuries sustained in the bike tip-over are likely to be worse due to
the higher speeds.

> You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

06-29-2004, 10:25 AM

In article <40e1a8c3$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

....

> >>It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> >>as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> >>towing it, it will be "dangerous."
> >
> >
> > That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8 mph, and can
> > stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike, you could easily double
> > that speed, and triple it on not much of a hill.
>
> ... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

Hardly. It's simply that a higher-speed tip-over or crash is likely to
cause more injury than a lower-speed one, and pulling it on a bike is
like to be faster than walking or running. That's all I'm saying. It
wouldn't surprise me a bit if the tip-over rate when being pushed by a
person is actually higher than when being pulled by a bike, but the
injuries sustained in the bike tip-over are likely to be worse due to
the higher speeds.

> You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

06-29-2004, 11:51 AM

Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>...
> Kyler Laird wrote:
>
> > "GS" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my daughter in a child
> >>trailer. How young can children be to safely ride in a trailer?
> >
> >
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> >
> > Chariot Baby Supporter
> > The fleece Baby Supporter helps children between from about 3-4
> > months to about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
> > comfortably. The head support is removable, for when your child
> > is old enough for a helmet (usually around 1 year old). Works
> > with 5-point harnesses. Compatible with all Chariot products
> > except the SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
> > for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is for using
> > your Chariot for walking or jogging.)
> >
> > That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I certainly don't know
> > how it relates to "safely" riding.
>
> Nor do I.
>
> >
> > I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being available for
> > children under about one year of age for similar reasons.
>
> ... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one year old has
> ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in a bike trailer! If it's
> out there, I certainly haven't seen it. And if it's happened, it's
> certainly very, very rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.
>
> It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> towing it, it will be "dangerous."
>
>
> Regarding the original question: towing an infant in a bike trailer
> needn't be any more dangerous than transporting the kid in a car. It
> depends on the riding environment. Obviously, high-speed twisty
> descents, gnarly off-road trails, etc. would be bad. Quiet neighborhood
> streets or rides in the park can be fine.
>
> Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb on the inside
> of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going fast enough. So don't do that.
>
> My daughter (now grown) was going for short bike rides at about 4
> months, IIRC, in a sort of sling-backpack. I'm very stable on a bike,
> and had no trouble at all. Obviously, her head was well-supported, just
> as it would be if we were carrying her while walking. Eventually she
> moved into a kid seat on the bike, then onto a tandem with a kid-back setup.
>
> (Of course, this was all before bicycling became officially "Dangerous!!!")
>
> All in all, I'd say if the kid is well strapped in and well supported
> (especially her head and neck), and if you're appropriately careful, you
> can start in just a couple months. But keep in mind, your daughter
> isn't going to get much out of the experience until she can sit up and
> look around!

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.
Strapping it into a car is as dangerouse as it gets.

06-29-2004, 11:51 AM

Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>...
> Kyler Laird wrote:
>
> > "GS" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my daughter in a child
> >>trailer. How young can children be to safely ride in a trailer?
> >
> >
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> >
> > Chariot Baby Supporter
> > The fleece Baby Supporter helps children between from about 3-4
> > months to about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
> > comfortably. The head support is removable, for when your child
> > is old enough for a helmet (usually around 1 year old). Works
> > with 5-point harnesses. Compatible with all Chariot products
> > except the SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
> > for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is for using
> > your Chariot for walking or jogging.)
> >
> > That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I certainly don't know
> > how it relates to "safely" riding.
>
> Nor do I.
>
> >
> > I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being available for
> > children under about one year of age for similar reasons.
>
> ... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one year old has
> ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in a bike trailer! If it's
> out there, I certainly haven't seen it. And if it's happened, it's
> certainly very, very rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.
>
> It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> towing it, it will be "dangerous."
>
>
> Regarding the original question: towing an infant in a bike trailer
> needn't be any more dangerous than transporting the kid in a car. It
> depends on the riding environment. Obviously, high-speed twisty
> descents, gnarly off-road trails, etc. would be bad. Quiet neighborhood
> streets or rides in the park can be fine.
>
> Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb on the inside
> of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going fast enough. So don't do that.
>
> My daughter (now grown) was going for short bike rides at about 4
> months, IIRC, in a sort of sling-backpack. I'm very stable on a bike,
> and had no trouble at all. Obviously, her head was well-supported, just
> as it would be if we were carrying her while walking. Eventually she
> moved into a kid seat on the bike, then onto a tandem with a kid-back setup.
>
> (Of course, this was all before bicycling became officially "Dangerous!!!")
>
> All in all, I'd say if the kid is well strapped in and well supported
> (especially her head and neck), and if you're appropriately careful, you
> can start in just a couple months. But keep in mind, your daughter
> isn't going to get much out of the experience until she can sit up and
> look around!

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.
Strapping it into a car is as dangerouse as it gets.

06-29-2004, 11:51 AM

Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>...
> Kyler Laird wrote:
>
> > "GS" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my daughter in a child
> >>trailer. How young can children be to safely ride in a trailer?
> >
> >
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> >
> > Chariot Baby Supporter
> > The fleece Baby Supporter helps children between from about 3-4
> > months to about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
> > comfortably. The head support is removable, for when your child
> > is old enough for a helmet (usually around 1 year old). Works
> > with 5-point harnesses. Compatible with all Chariot products
> > except the SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
> > for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is for using
> > your Chariot for walking or jogging.)
> >
> > That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I certainly don't know
> > how it relates to "safely" riding.
>
> Nor do I.
>
> >
> > I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being available for
> > children under about one year of age for similar reasons.
>
> ... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one year old has
> ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in a bike trailer! If it's
> out there, I certainly haven't seen it. And if it's happened, it's
> certainly very, very rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.
>
> It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> towing it, it will be "dangerous."
>
>
> Regarding the original question: towing an infant in a bike trailer
> needn't be any more dangerous than transporting the kid in a car. It
> depends on the riding environment. Obviously, high-speed twisty
> descents, gnarly off-road trails, etc. would be bad. Quiet neighborhood
> streets or rides in the park can be fine.
>
> Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb on the inside
> of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going fast enough. So don't do that.
>
> My daughter (now grown) was going for short bike rides at about 4
> months, IIRC, in a sort of sling-backpack. I'm very stable on a bike,
> and had no trouble at all. Obviously, her head was well-supported, just
> as it would be if we were carrying her while walking. Eventually she
> moved into a kid seat on the bike, then onto a tandem with a kid-back setup.
>
> (Of course, this was all before bicycling became officially "Dangerous!!!")
>
> All in all, I'd say if the kid is well strapped in and well supported
> (especially her head and neck), and if you're appropriately careful, you
> can start in just a couple months. But keep in mind, your daughter
> isn't going to get much out of the experience until she can sit up and
> look around!

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.
Strapping it into a car is as dangerouse as it gets.

06-29-2004, 11:51 AM

Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>...
> Kyler Laird wrote:
>
> > "GS" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my daughter in a child
> >>trailer. How young can children be to safely ride in a trailer?
> >
> >
> > [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
> >
> > Chariot Baby Supporter
> > The fleece Baby Supporter helps children between from about 3-4
> > months to about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
> > comfortably. The head support is removable, for when your child
> > is old enough for a helmet (usually around 1 year old). Works
> > with 5-point harnesses. Compatible with all Chariot products
> > except the SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
> > for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is for using
> > your Chariot for walking or jogging.)
> >
> > That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I certainly don't know
> > how it relates to "safely" riding.
>
> Nor do I.
>
> >
> > I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being available for
> > children under about one year of age for similar reasons.
>
> ... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one year old has
> ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in a bike trailer! If it's
> out there, I certainly haven't seen it. And if it's happened, it's
> certainly very, very rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.
>
> It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push that trialer
> as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe." But if a bicycle is
> towing it, it will be "dangerous."
>
>
> Regarding the original question: towing an infant in a bike trailer
> needn't be any more dangerous than transporting the kid in a car. It
> depends on the riding environment. Obviously, high-speed twisty
> descents, gnarly off-road trails, etc. would be bad. Quiet neighborhood
> streets or rides in the park can be fine.
>
> Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb on the inside
> of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going fast enough. So don't do that.
>
> My daughter (now grown) was going for short bike rides at about 4
> months, IIRC, in a sort of sling-backpack. I'm very stable on a bike,
> and had no trouble at all. Obviously, her head was well-supported, just
> as it would be if we were carrying her while walking. Eventually she
> moved into a kid seat on the bike, then onto a tandem with a kid-back setup.
>
> (Of course, this was all before bicycling became officially "Dangerous!!!")
>
> All in all, I'd say if the kid is well strapped in and well supported
> (especially her head and neck), and if you're appropriately careful, you
> can start in just a couple months. But keep in mind, your daughter
> isn't going to get much out of the experience until she can sit up and
> look around!

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.
Strapping it into a car is as dangerouse as it gets.