EPO and Cutoff Point - Page 2

07-03-2004, 12:00 PM

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:44:02 -0400, "Churchill" <yes@yes.com> wrote:

>What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
>France ?!
>
>Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
>just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.
>
>Comments welcome -

Go for it. The other riders will appreciate your withdrawal from
competition.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.

07-03-2004, 12:18 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:16:26 GMT, "Andy Coggan" <acoggan@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Churchill" <yes@yes.com> wrote in message
>news:2VwFc.197074$207.2187411@news20.bellglobal.c om...
>> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
>> France ?!
>>
>> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
>> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.
>>
>> Comments welcome -

>
>My comment is that you obviously don't know how testing for exogenous EPO is
>performed.
>
>Andy Coggan

It can be complicated and there are many avenues for detection. You can
look at reticulocyte count (new red cells), you can look for trace
by-products I'd bet, or you can just look at hematocrit.

It's expensive and sometimes they 'sink test' (i.e. take the samples, but
don't test them). Sometimes, from what I've heard they just draw a blood
sample and look at the red cell count (Hct), and if you're at or above 50%
you're DQ. They just send the new guys to be tested first and give IVs to
the top guys to dilute out the hct by the time it's there turn, from what
I've heard.

For the big events, they probably just test the winners, like top three. So
your strategy is to use doping on the other members of the team who aren't
likely to be tested and this give somewhat of an unfair advantage to the
team-member who is the front-runner, but not much you can do about it.

It will be interesting to see what the insiders have to say when they come
out with the expose books that are rumored.

-Badger

07-03-2004, 12:18 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:16:26 GMT, "Andy Coggan" <acoggan@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Churchill" <yes@yes.com> wrote in message
>news:2VwFc.197074$207.2187411@news20.bellglobal.c om...
>> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
>> France ?!
>>
>> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
>> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.
>>
>> Comments welcome -

>
>My comment is that you obviously don't know how testing for exogenous EPO is
>performed.
>
>Andy Coggan

It can be complicated and there are many avenues for detection. You can
look at reticulocyte count (new red cells), you can look for trace
by-products I'd bet, or you can just look at hematocrit.

It's expensive and sometimes they 'sink test' (i.e. take the samples, but
don't test them). Sometimes, from what I've heard they just draw a blood
sample and look at the red cell count (Hct), and if you're at or above 50%
you're DQ. They just send the new guys to be tested first and give IVs to
the top guys to dilute out the hct by the time it's there turn, from what
I've heard.

For the big events, they probably just test the winners, like top three. So
your strategy is to use doping on the other members of the team who aren't
likely to be tested and this give somewhat of an unfair advantage to the
team-member who is the front-runner, but not much you can do about it.

It will be interesting to see what the insiders have to say when they come
out with the expose books that are rumored.

-Badger

07-03-2004, 12:18 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:16:26 GMT, "Andy Coggan" <acoggan@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Churchill" <yes@yes.com> wrote in message
>news:2VwFc.197074$207.2187411@news20.bellglobal.c om...
>> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
>> France ?!
>>
>> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
>> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.
>>
>> Comments welcome -

>
>My comment is that you obviously don't know how testing for exogenous EPO is
>performed.
>
>Andy Coggan

It can be complicated and there are many avenues for detection. You can
look at reticulocyte count (new red cells), you can look for trace
by-products I'd bet, or you can just look at hematocrit.

It's expensive and sometimes they 'sink test' (i.e. take the samples, but
don't test them). Sometimes, from what I've heard they just draw a blood
sample and look at the red cell count (Hct), and if you're at or above 50%
you're DQ. They just send the new guys to be tested first and give IVs to
the top guys to dilute out the hct by the time it's there turn, from what
I've heard.

For the big events, they probably just test the winners, like top three. So
your strategy is to use doping on the other members of the team who aren't
likely to be tested and this give somewhat of an unfair advantage to the
team-member who is the front-runner, but not much you can do about it.

It will be interesting to see what the insiders have to say when they come
out with the expose books that are rumored.

-Badger

07-03-2004, 12:18 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:16:26 GMT, "Andy Coggan" <acoggan@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Churchill" <yes@yes.com> wrote in message
>news:2VwFc.197074$207.2187411@news20.bellglobal.c om...
>> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
>> France ?!
>>
>> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
>> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.
>>
>> Comments welcome -

>
>My comment is that you obviously don't know how testing for exogenous EPO is
>performed.
>
>Andy Coggan

It can be complicated and there are many avenues for detection. You can
look at reticulocyte count (new red cells), you can look for trace
by-products I'd bet, or you can just look at hematocrit.

It's expensive and sometimes they 'sink test' (i.e. take the samples, but
don't test them). Sometimes, from what I've heard they just draw a blood
sample and look at the red cell count (Hct), and if you're at or above 50%
you're DQ. They just send the new guys to be tested first and give IVs to
the top guys to dilute out the hct by the time it's there turn, from what
I've heard.

For the big events, they probably just test the winners, like top three. So
your strategy is to use doping on the other members of the team who aren't
likely to be tested and this give somewhat of an unfair advantage to the
team-member who is the front-runner, but not much you can do about it.

It will be interesting to see what the insiders have to say when they come
out with the expose books that are rumored.

-Badger

07-03-2004, 12:18 PM

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:16:26 GMT, "Andy Coggan" <acoggan@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Churchill" <yes@yes.com> wrote in message
>news:2VwFc.197074$207.2187411@news20.bellglobal.c om...
>> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
>> France ?!
>>
>> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
>> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.
>>
>> Comments welcome -

>
>My comment is that you obviously don't know how testing for exogenous EPO is
>performed.
>
>Andy Coggan

It can be complicated and there are many avenues for detection. You can
look at reticulocyte count (new red cells), you can look for trace
by-products I'd bet, or you can just look at hematocrit.

It's expensive and sometimes they 'sink test' (i.e. take the samples, but
don't test them). Sometimes, from what I've heard they just draw a blood
sample and look at the red cell count (Hct), and if you're at or above 50%
you're DQ. They just send the new guys to be tested first and give IVs to
the top guys to dilute out the hct by the time it's there turn, from what
I've heard.

For the big events, they probably just test the winners, like top three. So
your strategy is to use doping on the other members of the team who aren't
likely to be tested and this give somewhat of an unfair advantage to the
team-member who is the front-runner, but not much you can do about it.

It will be interesting to see what the insiders have to say when they come
out with the expose books that are rumored.

-Badger

07-03-2004, 12:57 PM

Churchill <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
> France ?!

> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.

You are confusing EPO, a chemical, and hematocrit, a measure
of red blood cell concentration. There are both an EPO test and
a hematocrit cut-off point, 50% for men. If you want more
information, search the groups.google.com archives.

Please stop crossposting all of your questions between r.b.misc,
racing, and tech. Choose the most appropriate newsgroup and
post there.

07-03-2004, 12:57 PM

Churchill <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
> France ?!

> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.

You are confusing EPO, a chemical, and hematocrit, a measure
of red blood cell concentration. There are both an EPO test and
a hematocrit cut-off point, 50% for men. If you want more
information, search the groups.google.com archives.

Please stop crossposting all of your questions between r.b.misc,
racing, and tech. Choose the most appropriate newsgroup and
post there.

07-03-2004, 12:57 PM

Churchill <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
> France ?!

> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.

You are confusing EPO, a chemical, and hematocrit, a measure
of red blood cell concentration. There are both an EPO test and
a hematocrit cut-off point, 50% for men. If you want more
information, search the groups.google.com archives.

Please stop crossposting all of your questions between r.b.misc,
racing, and tech. Choose the most appropriate newsgroup and
post there.

07-03-2004, 12:57 PM

Churchill <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> What is the percentage cut-off point for being booted out of the Tour de
> France ?!

> Presumably, with the aid of a physician a rider could ensure their EPO is
> just under the cut-off point and take advantage of doping.

You are confusing EPO, a chemical, and hematocrit, a measure
of red blood cell concentration. There are both an EPO test and
a hematocrit cut-off point, 50% for men. If you want more
information, search the groups.google.com archives.

Please stop crossposting all of your questions between r.b.misc,
racing, and tech. Choose the most appropriate newsgroup and
post there.