Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks - Page 2 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-28-2003, 06:59 PM

"DedCat" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:cMrLa.12012$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].net.cabl e.rogers.com...
> "Just a Cyclist" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> > Yes it does.......but when it stomps on others rights......it has no
place
> > here or anywhere. CM is a bunch of losers who don't have any good thing
to
> ...
> >> They are not road cyclist......the are rogues and
disruptors........that
> > all.
> ...
> > Yes we need more bike lanes, etc.......but CM way of protest will NEVER
> get
> > the proper attention and will bring more resistance the help........I
have
> > experienced it.........NO thanks to you.
> ...
> > Yes they were............and did they get what they wanted...........no!
> > Not with your help...........
>
> You've made four erroneous assumptions here.
>
> One is that all participants in a critical mass protest are hooligans.
> Watch one one day and you'll see that while a good number of them are bike
> couriers (who should know a thing or two about street riding as they are
on
> the road in the downtown core all day long), they are not all ruffians.
>
> Two is the ignorant assumption number two is that your way is the only
> way... the inherit arrogance in that statement is glaring.
Never said my or the highway...........but there way is NO way!

The are other
> cyclists in this world, and they all have much as much right to their
> opinion as you.
and that is your opinion.........right........one's opinion, just like mine
>
> Three, that I am a ruffian and an active participant in critical mass
> protests. I am not.
Then you should police your critical mass.........the few as you
say........ruin it all for the good!

The city I live in is well equipped for bicycles, and
> while I still think things can be better, they are not so deficient that I
> have felt the need to participate in a protest.
Protest or social disorder? there is a difference.
>
> And lastly, you seem to have the bizarre idea that protests should be
hidden
> away so that people will not be inconvenienced with the message that is
> trying to be conveyed.
Yes...to get your rights.........you should stomp on others rights to get
your point across........ I think not!
I wonder how far black rights, gay rights, or
> anti-war movements would have gotten if people went so out of their way as
> to not interrupt in the slightest the daily routine of the average schmoe
> such as yourself.

I know........wrote enough tickets for the MC in Sac.
>
>

06-28-2003, 07:22 PM

"DedCat" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:hBkLa.8544

> Critical Mass is a protest, just like any other, and it has every right to
> exist. Rather than marching on foot with placards, this march takes place

There is no doubt that critical mass participants have a right to protest.
However, there is a big difference between protesting and disrupting.
Protesting gets the word out that there is a group of people who are opposed
to someone else's opinion or the way something is being done. Disrupting is
making the normal order impossible because the "protestors" are blocking
access.

> out, and continue to lobby their government for more bike lanes and safe
> road programs in the meantime, then I say all power to them.

Lobby all you want. Have petition drives. Put up signs. Have cycling
programs for kids. Get the transportation people to add more questions about
bicycles on driver's exams. Work on stricter penalties for injuring or
killing a cyclist with a car. Do all of these things, but please, don't jam
up the roads in "protest." It does nothing to promote our rights to the
road. But it certainly makes people mad.

Personally, I don't want critical mass to be a reflection of me. They do not
represent me. But their actions reflect on cyclists as a whole.

-Buck

06-28-2003, 07:53 PM

"RattRigg" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:bf151c88.0306281855.4e43462a@posting.google.c om...

> Critical Mass is nothing more then civil
> [vandalism] disguised as a protest/event.

If this be civil vandalism, let us make the most of it.

> Other road users think that cyclists are
> a [nuisance], and critical mass does
> nothing but justify that opinion.

Don't know about Oz, but here in California the only
significant problems seem to occur when some politician (da mayor
in SF, and some Asian SF supervisor whose name escapes me, Michael
something) decides to try to get some ink by insisting the cops
crack down, so they do, people get pushed around, feathers get
ruffled, tempers rise. Either that or the cops are just bored, so
they decide on their own to push people around.

> If you want to change the way things
> are, take off your hemp cycling [jersey],
> turn down the phish cd and WORK to
> make it better.

Dude, more hemp and more Phish would make everything works
lots better.

Ride on,

Rico
Sackamenna (where it was only 101 degrees (38C) today, a break
from yesterday's 105 (40.5C))

06-28-2003, 07:59 PM

Buck wrote:

> ...there is a big difference between
> protesting and disrupting.

Often there is not.

> Lobby all you want. Have petition drives.
> Put up signs. Have cycling programs for
> kids. Get the transportation people to
> add more questions about bicycles on
> driver's exams. Work on stricter penalties
> for injuring or killing a cyclist with a
> car. Do all of these things, but please,
> don't jam up the roads in "protest."

Protest doesn't need quotes around it. It is just that.

> It does nothing to promote our rights to the
> road. But it certainly makes people mad.

In other words, do whatever you want, just don't do anything
that might actually get people's attention.

> Personally, I don't want critical mass to
> be a reflection of me. They do not
> represent me. But their actions reflect on
> cyclists as a whole.

Tough problem. Either they're just criminals who should be
busted, or their gripes are legitimate, in which case you'd want
to lend them a hand. Let us know which way you decide to go.

06-28-2003, 08:27 PM

"Rico X. Partay" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].netcom.com> wrote in message news:wotLa.723
> Dude, more hemp and more Phish would make everything works
> lots better.
>
Nonsense, you riff-raff are the reason elite roadies like me
are not appreciated over here like we should be.

And you types wonder why guys like me yell at you and throw
things like our Silca mini pumps at you when you get in our
way when we are out training.

The trouble with your C.M. stuff is the motorist you tick off
will see a top level cyclist like me later and only think of the
damn hippie loser he saw in town, it won't register on him that
I'm riding a pro bike with CX-7 Look pedals and hollow pin
chain and wearing my team kit.

If you want to cycle without obsessing about auto traffic then
stay out of places bikes have no business being in, like the
business areas, retail areas, urban areas, etc. You can put the
bike on the roof rack and drive out to the good training roads.
Use the car for getting to work and shopping, cycling is only
about training and competing.

06-28-2003, 08:35 PM

"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:vUtLa.315308$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].c a...

> Nonsense, you riff-raff are the
> reason elite roadies like me
> are not appreciated over here like
> we should be.

Fab! Long time no read. How are the new meds working out?

06-28-2003, 08:43 PM

"Rico X. Partay" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].netcom.com> wrote in message news:B0uLa.797>
> Fab! Long time no read. How are the new meds working out?
>
>
Good, really.

Only concern is my directeur sportif Giuseppe Martinelli
has me using probenicid as the masking agent, and we all
know that probenicid didn't do the trick for Stefano Garzelli
last year.

06-28-2003, 11:31 PM

"DedCat" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:hBkLa.8544$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].net.cable .rogers.com...
> Critical Mass is a protest, just like any other, and it has every right to
> exist. Rather than marching on foot with placards, this march takes place
> on two man-powered wheels.
I always thought that protests were designed to generate understanding and
support, guess what guys and gals, you have failed. When even fellow cyclist
turn against you and your cause doesnt this give you an idea that your on
the wrong track. Education and publicity of the benifits of alterntive
transport has to be the answer but critical mass take the easy terror tactic
of disruption and mayham that set yourself aside from the rest of the
community.

> Critical Mass's real purpose is to show to the community that road
cyclists are here,
My point exactly, through disruptions like Friday nights, motorist know we
are here but 'tar us with the same brush' and believe we are just like the
circus freeks who disrupted their drive home.

> Many drivers and municipalities treat cyclists like a nuisance, rather
than
> like the healthy alternative form of transport that they are.
Sure but fueling their ingnorace with this sought of behaviour is not the
answer, as I mentioned in the original post, groups like Bicycle
Victoria([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) do so much more for this cause through
education. Most municipalities in Australia employ specific trafic engineers
to work toward building better roads for shared modes of transport. This
move has in no way been swayed by the Critical Mass tactics, it has been
brought on by mature lobbying by concerned bicycle user groups.

06-28-2003, 11:39 PM

> From: "SH" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].au>
> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:31:16 +1000
> Subject: Re: Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
>
>
<snip>
> Sure but fueling their ingnorace with this sought of behaviour is not the
> answer, as I mentioned in the original post, groups like Bicycle
> Victoria([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) do so much more for this cause through
> education. Most municipalities in Australia employ specific trafic engineers
> to work toward building better roads for shared modes of transport. This
> move has in no way been swayed by the Critical Mass tactics, it has been
> brought on by mature lobbying by concerned bicycle user groups.

SH, I notice that you completely ignored my original reply to your post.
I'll re-post for your benefit. Perhaps you'd care to read it this time:

>To all cyclists who supported the Critical Mass ride through the
>Melbourne domain tunnel, thanks a lot. As a competative cyclist I
>have had to put up with increase abuse while training today because
>of your stupidity last night. Unfortunately many motorist think we
>are one in the same and have been giving more abuse today than we
>normally recieve just for sharing the road. Just a coincidence, I
>dont think so!

For a start, you might want to get your facts straight. It was the BURNLEY
Tunnel, not the Domain Tunnel. And any increase in abuse which you
(allegedly) received can be put squarely on the shoulders of the apoplectic
radio jocks who spent hours (literally) talking about how the world was
going to end because people couldn't drive through their precious tunnel.
For the record, here's some press clippings from AFTER the event which
reflect the reality of the situation:

Herald Sun
"Police said the protest caused only a minor disruption and they were happy
with the conduct of the protesters"

The Age
"VicRoads traffic controllers said the event did not seem to have caused
congestion in other parts of the city"
"After police drove through the closed tunnel at 6.30pm, the first five
cyclists entered from Power Street at 6.35pm. The rest entered from Kings
Way two minutes later. The tunnel was reopened at 7.15pm."

So, far from the projected chaos on the roads, the resulting effect on
traffic caused barely a ripple, according to the authorities. And the tunnel
was closed for a total of 45 minutes -- far from the 2 hours which the radio
jocks were screaming about.

>Why don't you look at the constructive lead taken by Bicycle Victoria,
>who promote safe road use for all users. They lobbying Local and State
>governments in the provision of cycle safe roads. They also promote rides
>that introduce thousands of non cyclist to the sport, which in turn
>educates a large group of the population on the benifits of bicycle
>commuting and hence reduces the use of cars.

Among the 20 or so Critical Mass riders that I am friendly with, we are
involved in the following bicycle advocacy projects. Personally, I spend
time working on almost every item on this list:

* forming and running successful Bicycle User Groups (BUGs) to promote
cycling and lobby for better cycling facilities
* lobbying government & authorities at all levels, in conjunction with BV
* producing educative and informational cycling newsletters and publications
* sitting on local government cycling advisory committees
* working with local government & BV to create Bike Plans for council areas
* lobbying local council directly for bike lanes (many CM riders have been
involved in a campaign to get lanes on Chapel St, which finally looks like
it may happen)
* maintaining cycling email lists & websites
* writing articles for local newspapers and "BV News"
* planning for a "Melbourne Bike Week" next summer
* working on mode-shift programs which encourage people to consider cycling
rather than driving
* planning & hosting social rides open to the general public
(and this is not even mentioning work by CM'ers in the areas of public
transport & environmental advocacy)

The vast bulk of this work is unpaid & voluntary, and involves a huge
commitment of personal time from many diverse individuals. It would amount
to hundreds of hours spent on cycling advocacy each month -- and that's only
speaking for the 20 people that I know personally. I can't even begin to
speak for the other 430 riders who were at CM last night.

You are WAY off the mark when you paint us as outlaws. We work within the
system 99% of the time, and often we work hand-in-hand with Bicycle
Victoria. If you don't believe me, then ring up BV and ask them. And you
might be interested to know that although BV does not endorse Critical Mass
(nor would we ever ask it to) there are many individuals who work for BV who
ride in CM.

We are not just activists, we are also advocates. Yet once a month when we
put on our party hats at CM, people like you get up on your high horse and
slag us off for being cowboys. Well, let me ask you, SH, what have you done
lately to promote cycling or improve cycling facilities?

>You riders want a society with out cars, its not going to happen, get
>over it. What will happen with the publicity that you short sighted
>radicals get, is there will be a wider devide between motorist and us.
>This will just make it more dangerous to ride, discourage people from
>riding and undo all the good BV and simular groups have achieved.

I think YOU should get over it. Car use is an environmental, health,
resource use, land use and pollution issue. It's time people realised that
our current addiction to cars is completely unsustainable. And if it takes
CM to do it, then fine.

CM is global, and we're not going away. Come along to a CM ride some time
(last Friday of the month, 5.30pm, State Library) and experience the joy of
it all. You might even like it!

06-29-2003, 05:06 AM

"Rico X. Partay" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].netcom.com> wrote in message
news:zutLa.732
> Buck wrote:
> > car. Do all of these things, but please,
> > don't jam up the roads in "protest."
>
> Protest doesn't need quotes around it. It is just that.

A protest makes a point without completely distrupting something else. When
critical mass gets involved, they cause big disruptions and only call it a
protest, thus the need for quotes. More often than not, they are out there
to act like dang fools. It's all the circus-wannabees that need a place and
time to show off their wares.

> > It does nothing to promote our rights to the
> > road. But it certainly makes people mad.
>
> In other words, do whatever you want, just don't do anything
> that might actually get people's attention.

I find it hard to believe that you cannot distinguish between "getting
peoples' attention" and disrupting peoples lives to the point of making them
angry. Perhaps you think al Queda was just "getting peoples' attention" when
they took down the twin towers. An extreme example, perhaps, but maybe now
you get the point?

> > Personally, I don't want critical mass to
> > be a reflection of me. They do not
> > represent me. But their actions reflect on
> > cyclists as a whole.
>
> Tough problem. Either they're just criminals who should be
> busted, or their gripes are legitimate, in which case you'd want
> to lend them a hand. Let us know which way you decide to go.

Once again you have difficulty seeing the line that you shouldn't cross.
People with legitimate gripes shouldn't engage in criminal behavior to make
their point. People who engage in criminal behavior don't represent my
values, thus they cannot accurately represent me.

I make my point by being a cyclist that flows with traffic. I provide input
to planners who are working on better biking facilities. I teach kids how to
ride, how to maintain, and how to use properly work with traffic. These are
all ways that I am making a difference. Not one of them causes a traffic
jam.

-Buck