Stoplights: fatwa requested - Page 4

08-03-2004, 02:08 PM

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:27:39 -0400, "Doug Huffman"
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>The _g_od John Forester has written "Cyclists fare best when they act and
>are treated as drivers of vehicles." [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

yes yes.

I'm already quite aware of what Mr. Forester has had to say about
traffic.

The trouble with Divine Law is that it's usually couched in universal
terms, whereas we mortals live in a rather more specific world. This
is why people study Divinity--in an effort to apply universal
principles to specific situations.

Such as mine.

-Luigi

08-03-2004, 03:00 PM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> So, fatwa time, RBM traffic muftis: Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane? I mention this because motorists do this sort of thing all the
> time--line up in the left lane to get clear of a long line of
> right-turning traffic, and then change back into the right lane when
> the opportunity presents itself.

In a slightly different situation:

One way street (2nd Ave Ext) intersecting with a two-way (Jackson St.). I
plan to turn left at this intersection. There are four lane choices:

#1 lane: left turn only
#2 lane: left turn and straight
#3 lane: straight
#4 lane: right turn and straight

I have been lawfully cruising along this one way street in the #1 lane, as
in our state you may be to the far left as is safe on a one-way street as
well as to the far right. The question is, what to do when making the turn
left.

After making the turn, the #2 lane is frequently clogged with buses; there's
not enough room to make the turn if there's more than one bus. Further, the
bus is just going to come to a complete halt in just a bit and load and
unload passengers at a major stop in about 10 yards.

I have come to the conclusion that the correct behavior for the cyclist is
to remain in the #1 lane on the one-way street, complete the left turn such
that one continues to be in the #1 lane, go through the next light, and then
signal a lane change in front of the loading and unloading bus. If you need
a picture, I've just uploaded one at
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

This example, I think, is fairly close to what you are suggesting? Not
staying to the right, avoiding traffic clogs, but eventually moving to the
right when practical.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Personal page: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
See the books I've set free at: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

08-03-2004, 03:00 PM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> So, fatwa time, RBM traffic muftis: Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane? I mention this because motorists do this sort of thing all the
> time--line up in the left lane to get clear of a long line of
> right-turning traffic, and then change back into the right lane when
> the opportunity presents itself.

In a slightly different situation:

One way street (2nd Ave Ext) intersecting with a two-way (Jackson St.). I
plan to turn left at this intersection. There are four lane choices:

#1 lane: left turn only
#2 lane: left turn and straight
#3 lane: straight
#4 lane: right turn and straight

I have been lawfully cruising along this one way street in the #1 lane, as
in our state you may be to the far left as is safe on a one-way street as
well as to the far right. The question is, what to do when making the turn
left.

After making the turn, the #2 lane is frequently clogged with buses; there's
not enough room to make the turn if there's more than one bus. Further, the
bus is just going to come to a complete halt in just a bit and load and
unload passengers at a major stop in about 10 yards.

I have come to the conclusion that the correct behavior for the cyclist is
to remain in the #1 lane on the one-way street, complete the left turn such
that one continues to be in the #1 lane, go through the next light, and then
signal a lane change in front of the loading and unloading bus. If you need
a picture, I've just uploaded one at
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

This example, I think, is fairly close to what you are suggesting? Not
staying to the right, avoiding traffic clogs, but eventually moving to the
right when practical.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Personal page: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
See the books I've set free at: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

08-03-2004, 03:00 PM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> So, fatwa time, RBM traffic muftis: Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane? I mention this because motorists do this sort of thing all the
> time--line up in the left lane to get clear of a long line of
> right-turning traffic, and then change back into the right lane when
> the opportunity presents itself.

In a slightly different situation:

One way street (2nd Ave Ext) intersecting with a two-way (Jackson St.). I
plan to turn left at this intersection. There are four lane choices:

#1 lane: left turn only
#2 lane: left turn and straight
#3 lane: straight
#4 lane: right turn and straight

I have been lawfully cruising along this one way street in the #1 lane, as
in our state you may be to the far left as is safe on a one-way street as
well as to the far right. The question is, what to do when making the turn
left.

After making the turn, the #2 lane is frequently clogged with buses; there's
not enough room to make the turn if there's more than one bus. Further, the
bus is just going to come to a complete halt in just a bit and load and
unload passengers at a major stop in about 10 yards.

I have come to the conclusion that the correct behavior for the cyclist is
to remain in the #1 lane on the one-way street, complete the left turn such
that one continues to be in the #1 lane, go through the next light, and then
signal a lane change in front of the loading and unloading bus. If you need
a picture, I've just uploaded one at
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

This example, I think, is fairly close to what you are suggesting? Not
staying to the right, avoiding traffic clogs, but eventually moving to the
right when practical.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Personal page: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
See the books I've set free at: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

08-03-2004, 03:00 PM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> So, fatwa time, RBM traffic muftis: Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane? I mention this because motorists do this sort of thing all the
> time--line up in the left lane to get clear of a long line of
> right-turning traffic, and then change back into the right lane when
> the opportunity presents itself.

In a slightly different situation:

One way street (2nd Ave Ext) intersecting with a two-way (Jackson St.). I
plan to turn left at this intersection. There are four lane choices:

#1 lane: left turn only
#2 lane: left turn and straight
#3 lane: straight
#4 lane: right turn and straight

I have been lawfully cruising along this one way street in the #1 lane, as
in our state you may be to the far left as is safe on a one-way street as
well as to the far right. The question is, what to do when making the turn
left.

After making the turn, the #2 lane is frequently clogged with buses; there's
not enough room to make the turn if there's more than one bus. Further, the
bus is just going to come to a complete halt in just a bit and load and
unload passengers at a major stop in about 10 yards.

I have come to the conclusion that the correct behavior for the cyclist is
to remain in the #1 lane on the one-way street, complete the left turn such
that one continues to be in the #1 lane, go through the next light, and then
signal a lane change in front of the loading and unloading bus. If you need
a picture, I've just uploaded one at
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

This example, I think, is fairly close to what you are suggesting? Not
staying to the right, avoiding traffic clogs, but eventually moving to the
right when practical.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Personal page: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
See the books I've set free at: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

08-03-2004, 03:00 PM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> So, fatwa time, RBM traffic muftis: Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane? I mention this because motorists do this sort of thing all the
> time--line up in the left lane to get clear of a long line of
> right-turning traffic, and then change back into the right lane when
> the opportunity presents itself.

In a slightly different situation:

One way street (2nd Ave Ext) intersecting with a two-way (Jackson St.). I
plan to turn left at this intersection. There are four lane choices:

#1 lane: left turn only
#2 lane: left turn and straight
#3 lane: straight
#4 lane: right turn and straight

I have been lawfully cruising along this one way street in the #1 lane, as
in our state you may be to the far left as is safe on a one-way street as
well as to the far right. The question is, what to do when making the turn
left.

After making the turn, the #2 lane is frequently clogged with buses; there's
not enough room to make the turn if there's more than one bus. Further, the
bus is just going to come to a complete halt in just a bit and load and
unload passengers at a major stop in about 10 yards.

I have come to the conclusion that the correct behavior for the cyclist is
to remain in the #1 lane on the one-way street, complete the left turn such
that one continues to be in the #1 lane, go through the next light, and then
signal a lane change in front of the loading and unloading bus. If you need
a picture, I've just uploaded one at
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

This example, I think, is fairly close to what you are suggesting? Not
staying to the right, avoiding traffic clogs, but eventually moving to the
right when practical.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Personal page: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
See the books I've set free at: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

08-03-2004, 04:06 PM

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

> ... Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane?

Sounds fine to me. There's no law that says the bicycle _must_ be the
slowest vehicle on the road.

If you're moving at the speed of traffic, you should generally take the
lane.

If you're moving faster than the speed of traffic, you should generally
pass on the left. That's what you're doing.

The only trick is, keep aware of traffic in that right lane. You could
get into a weird situation where nobody does turn right, they buzz off
ahead of you, and impatient drivers behind you start peeling out of your
lane and passing you on your right. Not an insurmountable difficulty,
but you'd want to be careful with it because it's a little non-standard.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

08-03-2004, 04:06 PM

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

> ... Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane?

Sounds fine to me. There's no law that says the bicycle _must_ be the
slowest vehicle on the road.

If you're moving at the speed of traffic, you should generally take the
lane.

If you're moving faster than the speed of traffic, you should generally
pass on the left. That's what you're doing.

The only trick is, keep aware of traffic in that right lane. You could
get into a weird situation where nobody does turn right, they buzz off
ahead of you, and impatient drivers behind you start peeling out of your
lane and passing you on your right. Not an insurmountable difficulty,
but you'd want to be careful with it because it's a little non-standard.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

08-03-2004, 04:06 PM

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

> ... Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane?

Sounds fine to me. There's no law that says the bicycle _must_ be the
slowest vehicle on the road.

If you're moving at the speed of traffic, you should generally take the
lane.

If you're moving faster than the speed of traffic, you should generally
pass on the left. That's what you're doing.

The only trick is, keep aware of traffic in that right lane. You could
get into a weird situation where nobody does turn right, they buzz off
ahead of you, and impatient drivers behind you start peeling out of your
lane and passing you on your right. Not an insurmountable difficulty,
but you'd want to be careful with it because it's a little non-standard.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

08-03-2004, 04:06 PM

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

> ... Is this permissible for the
> faithful cyclist, or should I just go back to waiting in the right
> lane?

Sounds fine to me. There's no law that says the bicycle _must_ be the
slowest vehicle on the road.

If you're moving at the speed of traffic, you should generally take the
lane.

If you're moving faster than the speed of traffic, you should generally
pass on the left. That's what you're doing.

The only trick is, keep aware of traffic in that right lane. You could
get into a weird situation where nobody does turn right, they buzz off
ahead of you, and impatient drivers behind you start peeling out of your
lane and passing you on your right. Not an insurmountable difficulty,
but you'd want to be careful with it because it's a little non-standard.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]