Track cycling question - Page 14 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

08-24-2004, 03:46 PM

"Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:3f41cdbc.0408240631.3f51072d@posting.google.c om...
> "Carl Sundquist" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
> > "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > >
> > > I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
> > > not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
> > > dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
> > > because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.
> > >
> >
> > The only time I ever pulled out of a pedal in a mass start event was in
a
> > madison once when I threw my partner in. There is definitely torque
involved
> > in the exchange if you and your partner are not reasonably synchronized.
> > After the race, I increased the spring tension and that was the end of
the
> > problem.
>
>
> Did you say 'synchronized'?!
>
> -RJ

No.

08-24-2004, 03:46 PM

"Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:3f41cdbc.0408240631.3f51072d@posting.google.c om...
> "Carl Sundquist" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
> > "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > >
> > > I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
> > > not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
> > > dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
> > > because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.
> > >
> >
> > The only time I ever pulled out of a pedal in a mass start event was in
a
> > madison once when I threw my partner in. There is definitely torque
involved
> > in the exchange if you and your partner are not reasonably synchronized.
> > After the race, I increased the spring tension and that was the end of
the
> > problem.
>
>
> Did you say 'synchronized'?!
>
> -RJ

No.

08-24-2004, 03:46 PM

"Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:3f41cdbc.0408240631.3f51072d@posting.google.c om...
> "Carl Sundquist" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
> > "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > >
> > > I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
> > > not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
> > > dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
> > > because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.
> > >
> >
> > The only time I ever pulled out of a pedal in a mass start event was in
a
> > madison once when I threw my partner in. There is definitely torque
involved
> > in the exchange if you and your partner are not reasonably synchronized.
> > After the race, I increased the spring tension and that was the end of
the
> > problem.
>
>
> Did you say 'synchronized'?!
>
> -RJ

No.

08-24-2004, 05:28 PM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:

> "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
>> not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
>> dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
>> because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.

I have to agree with the sentiment. My experience is that most pull-outs
of clipless pedals are worn Look cleats. Maybe avoiding them is the
issue.

>In addition, as I said in my previous note, I am not so
> sure that clips and staps are less likely than other systems to pull out.

I disagree. Double-straps are almost foolproof. Single straps will allow
pullout, but decent cleats and double straps are very secure.

> This is especially true if you add in the worn
> cleats and cheap straps issue.

Worn clipless cleats are a serious hazard, worn slotted cleats are not.
They will still be held in by the straps -- and there again, all straps on
the market will hold well.

> I don't really see that clipless are any
> more dangerous than toe straps and clips.

I disagree. Clipless pedals are less likely to give any indication of
wear that could lead to a pull-out, and much more likely to fail when
worn.

>
> What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> pitched over the bars.

That is a bit harsh. People also pull out in sprints, where you have much
less chance of controlling the situation.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

08-24-2004, 05:28 PM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:

> "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
>> not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
>> dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
>> because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.

I have to agree with the sentiment. My experience is that most pull-outs
of clipless pedals are worn Look cleats. Maybe avoiding them is the
issue.

>In addition, as I said in my previous note, I am not so
> sure that clips and staps are less likely than other systems to pull out.

I disagree. Double-straps are almost foolproof. Single straps will allow
pullout, but decent cleats and double straps are very secure.

> This is especially true if you add in the worn
> cleats and cheap straps issue.

Worn clipless cleats are a serious hazard, worn slotted cleats are not.
They will still be held in by the straps -- and there again, all straps on
the market will hold well.

> I don't really see that clipless are any
> more dangerous than toe straps and clips.

I disagree. Clipless pedals are less likely to give any indication of
wear that could lead to a pull-out, and much more likely to fail when
worn.

>
> What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> pitched over the bars.

That is a bit harsh. People also pull out in sprints, where you have much
less chance of controlling the situation.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

08-24-2004, 05:28 PM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:

> "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
>> not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
>> dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
>> because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.

I have to agree with the sentiment. My experience is that most pull-outs
of clipless pedals are worn Look cleats. Maybe avoiding them is the
issue.

>In addition, as I said in my previous note, I am not so
> sure that clips and staps are less likely than other systems to pull out.

I disagree. Double-straps are almost foolproof. Single straps will allow
pullout, but decent cleats and double straps are very secure.

> This is especially true if you add in the worn
> cleats and cheap straps issue.

Worn clipless cleats are a serious hazard, worn slotted cleats are not.
They will still be held in by the straps -- and there again, all straps on
the market will hold well.

> I don't really see that clipless are any
> more dangerous than toe straps and clips.

I disagree. Clipless pedals are less likely to give any indication of
wear that could lead to a pull-out, and much more likely to fail when
worn.

>
> What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> pitched over the bars.

That is a bit harsh. People also pull out in sprints, where you have much
less chance of controlling the situation.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

08-24-2004, 05:28 PM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:

> "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> I know some will disagree, but the fact is that clipless pedals should
>> not even be permitted on the track in mass start events. They are
>> dangerous. Pulling out of your pedals is as dumb as rolling a tire
>> because you didn't glue it right. It's 100% unacceptable.

I have to agree with the sentiment. My experience is that most pull-outs
of clipless pedals are worn Look cleats. Maybe avoiding them is the
issue.

>In addition, as I said in my previous note, I am not so
> sure that clips and staps are less likely than other systems to pull out.

I disagree. Double-straps are almost foolproof. Single straps will allow
pullout, but decent cleats and double straps are very secure.

> This is especially true if you add in the worn
> cleats and cheap straps issue.

Worn clipless cleats are a serious hazard, worn slotted cleats are not.
They will still be held in by the straps -- and there again, all straps on
the market will hold well.

> I don't really see that clipless are any
> more dangerous than toe straps and clips.

I disagree. Clipless pedals are less likely to give any indication of
wear that could lead to a pull-out, and much more likely to fail when
worn.

>
> What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> pitched over the bars.

That is a bit harsh. People also pull out in sprints, where you have much
less chance of controlling the situation.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

08-24-2004, 08:17 PM

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news

an.2004.08.25.01.28.39.1800@lehigh.edu...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:
>
> > What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> > foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> > a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> > hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> > will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> > generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> > the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> > pitched over the bars.
>

Very very seldom does the "I forgot to pedal" syndrome result in being
pitched over the bars.

08-24-2004, 08:17 PM

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news

an.2004.08.25.01.28.39.1800@lehigh.edu...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:
>
> > What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> > foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> > a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> > hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> > will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> > generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> > the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> > pitched over the bars.
>

Very very seldom does the "I forgot to pedal" syndrome result in being
pitched over the bars.

08-24-2004, 08:17 PM

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news

an.2004.08.25.01.28.39.1800@lehigh.edu...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:46 +0000, Mike Murray wrote:
>
> > What I do think is unacceptable is falling down because of a pulled
> > foot. I have pulled a foot 3 times in mass start track races; once from
> > a broken cleat and twice because I was struck by another rider and the
> > hit twisted my foot out. Just relaxing the other leg and sitting down
> > will keep you upright. Falling because of a single pulled foot is
> > generally a variation of the "I forgot to keep pedaling" problem where
> > the leg that is still on the pedal is kept stiff and the rider gets
> > pitched over the bars.
>

Very very seldom does the "I forgot to pedal" syndrome result in being
pitched over the bars.