Track cycling question - Page 4

08-21-2004, 02:17 PM

"warren" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> In article <H8MVc.9005$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> > Harold Buck writes:
> >
> > > I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe
> > > clips instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless
> > > pedals? Or do they use both?
> >
> > Release of clipless pedals is by rotation of the foot to either side
> > of normal center position, and although this can be tightened, it
> > cannot be made failsafe against inadvertent rotation under high load.
>
> > It is not that the retention fails against high load but rather that
> > foot rotation is less easy to control on a standing start. In other
> > words it is not a failure of the mechanism to retain the load but
> > rather a failure of the mechanism to prevent rotation (release) when
> > it is not wanted.
>
> ...This from a guy who has never raced a kilo or team sprint in his
> life. Oh well.
>
> Yes, it is easier to rotate the foot enough to pull out to the side
> when doing a standing start on a banked track (~12 degrees at the start
> line).
>
> It is also possible for a strong rider to pull straight out the back of
> most clipless pedal systems during standing starts because the springs
> in the pedal or cleat for retention are simply not strong/tight enough
> to prevent this. Speedplay Zero "track" pedals are among the best for
> preventing this, as are the newest Dura-Ace pedals. LOOKS are not good,
> nor are most lower-level clipless pedal systems.
>
> I think that most of the riders you see with toe straps are not using
> the old-style slotted cleat. Most of the pedals used with clips and
> straps in the Olympics also have a mechanism intended to lock the shoe
> to the pedal and the straps are used as a second measure to keep the
> shoe on the pedals. In a way, the straps are there to prevent the shoe
> from being ripped apart during the start.
>
> -WG

..I use MKS EXA pedals. They are a toe clip and strap pedal but the pedal has
a tab mechanism that locks into a slot in the cleat. I also uses MKS Fit A
double toe straps. Yeah it may be overkill but I have never ever pulled out
of these pedals after probably well over 200 starts. Some think that they
are dangerous in the event of a crash because they do not releas and the
bike stays with you. Personally I want the bike where I know it is at and
not flailing around in the air while it is twisting one of my knees 720
degrees.
Dave

08-21-2004, 02:17 PM

"warren" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> In article <H8MVc.9005$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> > Harold Buck writes:
> >
> > > I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe
> > > clips instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless
> > > pedals? Or do they use both?
> >
> > Release of clipless pedals is by rotation of the foot to either side
> > of normal center position, and although this can be tightened, it
> > cannot be made failsafe against inadvertent rotation under high load.
>
> > It is not that the retention fails against high load but rather that
> > foot rotation is less easy to control on a standing start. In other
> > words it is not a failure of the mechanism to retain the load but
> > rather a failure of the mechanism to prevent rotation (release) when
> > it is not wanted.
>
> ...This from a guy who has never raced a kilo or team sprint in his
> life. Oh well.
>
> Yes, it is easier to rotate the foot enough to pull out to the side
> when doing a standing start on a banked track (~12 degrees at the start
> line).
>
> It is also possible for a strong rider to pull straight out the back of
> most clipless pedal systems during standing starts because the springs
> in the pedal or cleat for retention are simply not strong/tight enough
> to prevent this. Speedplay Zero "track" pedals are among the best for
> preventing this, as are the newest Dura-Ace pedals. LOOKS are not good,
> nor are most lower-level clipless pedal systems.
>
> I think that most of the riders you see with toe straps are not using
> the old-style slotted cleat. Most of the pedals used with clips and
> straps in the Olympics also have a mechanism intended to lock the shoe
> to the pedal and the straps are used as a second measure to keep the
> shoe on the pedals. In a way, the straps are there to prevent the shoe
> from being ripped apart during the start.
>
> -WG

..I use MKS EXA pedals. They are a toe clip and strap pedal but the pedal has
a tab mechanism that locks into a slot in the cleat. I also uses MKS Fit A
double toe straps. Yeah it may be overkill but I have never ever pulled out
of these pedals after probably well over 200 starts. Some think that they
are dangerous in the event of a crash because they do not releas and the
bike stays with you. Personally I want the bike where I know it is at and
not flailing around in the air while it is twisting one of my knees 720
degrees.
Dave

08-21-2004, 02:17 PM

"warren" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...
> In article <H8MVc.9005$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
> > Harold Buck writes:
> >
> > > I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe
> > > clips instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless
> > > pedals? Or do they use both?
> >
> > Release of clipless pedals is by rotation of the foot to either side
> > of normal center position, and although this can be tightened, it
> > cannot be made failsafe against inadvertent rotation under high load.
>
> > It is not that the retention fails against high load but rather that
> > foot rotation is less easy to control on a standing start. In other
> > words it is not a failure of the mechanism to retain the load but
> > rather a failure of the mechanism to prevent rotation (release) when
> > it is not wanted.
>
> ...This from a guy who has never raced a kilo or team sprint in his
> life. Oh well.
>
> Yes, it is easier to rotate the foot enough to pull out to the side
> when doing a standing start on a banked track (~12 degrees at the start
> line).
>
> It is also possible for a strong rider to pull straight out the back of
> most clipless pedal systems during standing starts because the springs
> in the pedal or cleat for retention are simply not strong/tight enough
> to prevent this. Speedplay Zero "track" pedals are among the best for
> preventing this, as are the newest Dura-Ace pedals. LOOKS are not good,
> nor are most lower-level clipless pedal systems.
>
> I think that most of the riders you see with toe straps are not using
> the old-style slotted cleat. Most of the pedals used with clips and
> straps in the Olympics also have a mechanism intended to lock the shoe
> to the pedal and the straps are used as a second measure to keep the
> shoe on the pedals. In a way, the straps are there to prevent the shoe
> from being ripped apart during the start.
>
> -WG

..I use MKS EXA pedals. They are a toe clip and strap pedal but the pedal has
a tab mechanism that locks into a slot in the cleat. I also uses MKS Fit A
double toe straps. Yeah it may be overkill but I have never ever pulled out
of these pedals after probably well over 200 starts. Some think that they
are dangerous in the event of a crash because they do not releas and the
bike stays with you. Personally I want the bike where I know it is at and
not flailing around in the air while it is twisting one of my knees 720
degrees.
Dave

08-21-2004, 03:14 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

This exact question was posed in L'Equipe which gave the supplementary
reason that with a clipless pedal, you could lose mechanical efficiency
through deformation of the top of the shoe while pulling up.

-ilan

08-21-2004, 03:14 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

This exact question was posed in L'Equipe which gave the supplementary
reason that with a clipless pedal, you could lose mechanical efficiency
through deformation of the top of the shoe while pulling up.

-ilan

08-21-2004, 03:14 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

This exact question was posed in L'Equipe which gave the supplementary
reason that with a clipless pedal, you could lose mechanical efficiency
through deformation of the top of the shoe while pulling up.

-ilan

08-21-2004, 03:14 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

This exact question was posed in L'Equipe which gave the supplementary
reason that with a clipless pedal, you could lose mechanical efficiency
through deformation of the top of the shoe while pulling up.

-ilan

08-21-2004, 03:16 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

And the ones that use toe clips also use clipless pedals (in my other message
I meant "only clipless pedals").

-ilan

08-21-2004, 03:16 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

And the ones that use toe clips also use clipless pedals (in my other message
I meant "only clipless pedals").

-ilan

08-21-2004, 03:16 PM

Harold Buck <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].giganews.com>...
> I noticed that in the Olympic track cycling events they have toe clips
> instead of clip-in pedals. Why don't they use clipless pedals? Or do
> they use both?

And the ones that use toe clips also use clipless pedals (in my other message
I meant "only clipless pedals").

-ilan