Pedestrians <again> - Page 2 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

10-04-2003, 01:17 PM

"Badger South" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU> wrote in message
news:bln2to$48q$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU...
> Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post
> would have provoked light-hearted replies or tales of similar
> ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I once tried to pass a group of pedestrians by riding off the path with 5
feet extra clear space. I yell "passing on your right" and one jumps, you
guessed it, 5 feet to the right.

One morning I yelled "passing on your right" to a jogger who laughed so hard
he almost fell off the cliff to his right.

> I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
> bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
> inevitability of the issue.

I also know the daughter of a woman whose independent life was ended by some
goof climbing a hill on the sidewalk with grocery bags on both handlebars.
Too many riders don't respect pedestrians.

Doug
Toronto

10-04-2003, 02:57 PM

In article <QRFfb.48760$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
Buck <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote:
>"Badger South" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU> wrote in message
>news:bln2to$48q$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU...
>
>> Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post
>> would have provoked light-hearted replies or tales of similar
>> ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.
>>
>> I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
>> bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
>> inevitability of the issue.
>
>By your posting history and general attitude, it is obvious you haven't been
>around this newsgroup for very long. You will find help on just about any
>cycling issue, but the actions you describe are the kind that drive a deeper
>wedge between us as cycling advocates and the general public.
>
>Now, if you were in a bike lane or on a public street, or perhaps if you
>were riding responsibly on a multi-use path, you might have had a more
>sympathetic reaction. But the way you described it just made you look
>irresponsible in your actions. You did say that you were "in full pedal for
>the opening." If you said you were full onto the brakes when the dog ran
>across the path, then the reaction would have been more to your liking. But
>what you described is something that reflects poorly on all of us. That's
>why the response wasn't positive.
>
>-Buck

OK, I didn't fully appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out.
I need to be more aware and sensitive to the perceptions of the
public and biking.

Maybe I am a little too aggressive on the bike; I'll think
about that. Perhaps it's a kind of reaction that people have
when they get behind the wheel of a car and become obnoxious.

Thanks for taking time to explain.

Best,
-B

--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

10-04-2003, 03:03 PM

In article <KVFfb.17077$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].net.cable.r ogers.com>,
Doug Purdy <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>"Badger South" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU> wrote in message
>news:bln2to$48q$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU...
>> Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post
>> would have provoked light-hearted replies or tales of similar
>> ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.
>
>I once tried to pass a group of pedestrians by riding off the path with 5
>feet extra clear space. I yell "passing on your right" and one jumps, you
>guessed it, 5 feet to the right.
>
>One morning I yelled "passing on your right" to a jogger who laughed so hard
>he almost fell off the cliff to his right.
>
>> I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
>> bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
>> inevitability of the issue.
>
>I also know the daughter of a woman whose independent life was ended by some
>goof climbing a hill on the sidewalk with grocery bags on both handlebars.
>Too many riders don't respect pedestrians.
>
>Doug
>Toronto

Good point. As bikers, we're only hurting ourselves by failing
to have this caution and respect for the danger we pose to
pedestrians. I'll certainly be more aware of such things and
try not to get to ampped over such things - I'm pretty much
able to laugh about it anyway, but there is a slight edge of
that can creep in.

Best,
-B
--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

10-04-2003, 03:25 PM

Badger South wrote:
> In article <QRFfb.48760$_N1.47799@twister.austin.rr.com>,
> Buck <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote:
>> "Badger South" <baj7d@node6.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message
>> news:bln2to$48q$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU...
>>
>>> Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post
>>> would have provoked light-hearted replies or tales of similar
>>> ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.
>>>
>>> I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
>>> bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
>>> inevitability of the issue.
>>
>> By your posting history and general attitude, it is obvious you
>> haven't been around this newsgroup for very long. You will find help
>> on just about any cycling issue, but the actions you describe are
>> the kind that drive a deeper wedge between us as cycling advocates
>> and the general public.
>>
>> Now, if you were in a bike lane or on a public street, or perhaps if
>> you were riding responsibly on a multi-use path, you might have had
>> a more sympathetic reaction. But the way you described it just made
>> you look irresponsible in your actions. You did say that you were
>> "in full pedal for the opening." If you said you were full onto the
>> brakes when the dog ran across the path, then the reaction would
>> have been more to your liking. But what you described is something
>> that reflects poorly on all of us. That's why the response wasn't
>> positive.
>>
>> -Buck
>
> OK, I didn't fully appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out.
> I need to be more aware and sensitive to the perceptions of the
> public and biking.
>
> Maybe I am a little too aggressive on the bike; I'll think
> about that. Perhaps it's a kind of reaction that people have
> when they get behind the wheel of a car and become obnoxious.
>
> Thanks for taking time to explain.
>
> Best,
> -B

The problem is that bikes are always borrowing somebody elses space. We
don't have our own. Once we understand this we travel much safer. It took me
a while to learn this and I'm a lot more mellow in city traffic nowadays.
I was only being mildly ironic to you in my earlier post. For me it did have
to do with on the bike strength. When I was a newbie I didn't wan't to slow
down once I'd gotten going. Nowadays I am strong enough to start and stop
continously on my daily rides without losing my pace, or breath

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

10-04-2003, 03:58 PM

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:18:32 +0000 (UTC), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
(Badger South) wrote:

>Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post
>would have provoked light-hearted replies or tales of similar
>ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.
>
>I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
>bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
>inevitability of the issue.
>
>Best,
>
>-B

<g>

Don't worry, I'm sure most people here have dealt with the same
clueless idiots and can relate. Any path that is built - even if it
is designated a "bike path" and has a seperate walkway alongside as
was recently built here in Toronto along the Eastern Lake Shore
Boulevard - will be frequented by dog-walkers, roller bladers, parents
with young children ambling around on foot, push scooter or bicycle
and numerous other hazards. Most of them will have driven to the path
and think nothing about being aggressive when they encounter cyclists
or pedestrians on the road but they will strongly object to you using
*their* path in an aggressive manner. So expecting to use one of
these paths to go anywhere quickly and safely is an excercise in
futility.

Now if you are compelled by law to use such path instead of the road
as is the case in some areas, then go ahead and get an air horn and
that boxing glove you mentioned. If you hit someone and get sued,
make sure you sue whomever enacted the law.

--
Chris Bird

10-04-2003, 04:10 PM

In article <bNHfb.31565$dP1.96313@newsc.telia.net>,
Per Elmsäter <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote:
>Badger South wrote:
>>
>> OK, I didn't fully appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out.
>> I need to be more aware and sensitive to the perceptions of the
>> public and biking.
>>
>> Maybe I am a little too aggressive on the bike; I'll think
>> about that. Perhaps it's a kind of reaction that people have
>> when they get behind the wheel of a car and become obnoxious.
>>
>> Thanks for taking time to explain.
>>
>> Best,
>> -B
>
>The problem is that bikes are always borrowing somebody elses space. We
>don't have our own. Once we understand this we travel much safer. It took me
>a while to learn this and I'm a lot more mellow in city traffic nowadays.
>I was only being mildly ironic to you in my earlier post. For me it did have
>to do with on the bike strength. When I was a newbie I didn't wan't to slow
>down once I'd gotten going. Nowadays I am strong enough to start and stop
>continously on my daily rides without losing my pace, or breath

>
>--
>Perre
>
>You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In thinking about it, it occurs to me that an aggressive
attitude on the bike is promoted by the very activity of
zipping around, wind at your back, your adrenaline is up a bit,
you're in an aerobic mode, which is heightened alertness, and
you just 'feel' aggressive.

I get that feeling when I'm running or lifting weights. Of
course when lifting, you need the aggression. In biking, it's
definitely a good idea to tone that down a little. ;-)

-B

--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

10-04-2003, 04:30 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:54:46 +0000, Badger South wrote:

> Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path
> pedestrian.

Or that of a cyclist.

> The first one, a young lady was walking her dawg on a leash, and was
> standing in front of a small opening in a log fence leading to the park
> and the bike trail. I hollar 'bike', and proceed to the opening. Her dog
> leash is on the ground, but she's on one side of the opening, and doggie
> is on the other. She tenses up when I holler 'bike', stretching the leash
> taut, and looks dazed and confused. At this point I'm in full pedal for
> the opening. She tries frantically to reel said pooch back to her, and
> poochie, of course, struggles to go the other way.
>
> Sheesh. Finally when collision seems imminent, light dawns and she steps
> -into- my path heading towards the dog. Huh? What timing, what panache. I
> barely miss her, have to jump off the pedals, and flintstone, and manage
> to squeek by narroly missing getting impaled on the wooden fence.

Did it possibly occur to you to slow down?
>
> Earlier, on a narrowed section of the woods trail, due to the hanging
> debris from H. Isabel, I see a mother with three small children. I holler
> 'bike'. She turns to see me coming, she and her brood being about 3-4 feet
> from the narrowed opening.

Look. You have these two levers on your bars. They are called brake levers.
Obviously you are not acquainted with them. Next time, instead of yelling
at people in your path, stop. You have three small children in front of
you. This is no time to go barreling through the crowd. It's not that
woman's fault that she was on _your_ trail. She thought she had the same
rights and privilges as anyone else to use the trail.

The reason they "look confused" is that they have no idea what to expect
from you. What they _should_ expect is that you will slow down so you
will not hit them. The first one you described was not _on_ the trail,
she was just in front of a hole in the fence you were aiming for. You do
not have any right of way, there.

> Instead of muttering obscenities at the pedestrians with no earthly
clue,

Sorry, guy, you're the one without a clue.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
_`\(,_ | That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
(_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism
and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any
<country. -- Hermann Goering

10-04-2003, 04:31 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Chris B. <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
<snippage>
>Now if you are compelled by law to use such path instead of the road
>as is the case in some areas, then go ahead and get an air horn and
>that boxing glove you mentioned. If you hit someone and get sued,
>make sure you sue whomever enacted the law.
>
>--
>Chris Bird

Again, just kidding, thus the hyperbole. After the severe
tongue lashing here, I may be tipping my hat and smiling at the
lovely creatures for weeks to come. ;-)

-B
--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

10-04-2003, 04:36 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:31:05 +0000, Badger South wrote:

> What is puzzling is the daft actions of the people walking. There are
> several ppl that ride bikes on this trail, but the walkers all act like
> 'OMG, it's a bizarre unknown contraption, what on earth should I do
now?'

Well, you know, what the f*ck should they have done? Scenario #1: did
the woman have a reasonable amount of time to get to the other side with
her dog? Sounds like she didn't. As far as you barreling towards a woman
and her three little children, let me tell you that I would have no
compunction about locking you up for a very long time had you run down one
of my kids.

> In addition all the walkers are supposed to have their dogs on a leash,
> and none of them do it.

Your first story concerned a woman with a dog on a leash.

> One should be able to expect that the pedestrians would just calmly move
> to the side and let a biker through, with sufficient warning; and most of
> them do.

You cannot expect little children to do this. It is up to you to watch
out for them. And their mother was much more concerned about what they
might do, than with obeying your shouted command to get out of your way.

> Lighten up.

Don't be reckless.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

10-04-2003, 04:37 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:18:32 +0000, Badger South wrote:

> I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess
> it comes from long experience and the inevitability of the issue.

Not when the biker is in the wrong. Makes it worse for all of us.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong.
_`\(,_ | He's not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian
(_)/ (_) | Anderson