Pedestrians <again> - Page 6 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

10-07-2003, 06:34 AM

"DejaVU" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].ac.za> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].ac.za...
> Badger South <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU> scribed in
> >I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
> >bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
> >inevitability of the issue.
>
> hey, mate I'm on your side. pedestrians are hazardous!

There is a big difference between being on someone's side and just doing
something silly. "Badger" demonstrated a pattern of riding in a manner that
was dangerous to himself and pedestrians. This made him a poor ambassador
for cyclists. The "us versus them" attitude only servers to further
ostracize cyclists. As another poster put it, we are travelling in borrowed
space. Sidewalks and paths are really the domain of the pedestrian. And
though we usually have greater rights on the roads, they have been
redesigned to accomodate autos, not cyclists. If cyclists treat pedestrians
poorly on a path, will the pedestrian not treat cyclists on the road the
same way when the pedestrian gets into a car? These are the things we must
consider when we have thoughts about "us versus them." Sooner or later, we
will be "them."

> here where I live, we drive our cars on the left
> always have.
> but
> pedestrians, walking pathways (not roads), tend to walk on the right.
> why? I think that it is reasonably obvious to walk on the left
> (side you drive your car) on pathways, in malls etc, to make the
> traffic flow nicely. most of us drive cars or have driven in cars,
> and have been brought up knowing that cars drive on the left.
> so why walk right?
> (answer/solution later)

Perhaps the answer you offer below has merit, but my experience is
different. I found that most of the students who came from countries where
they drive on the left also walk on the left. It usually takes several
months for them to adjust their walking habits so they aren't face-to-face
with oncoming pedestrian traffic. But it takes much longer for them to
switch when climbing stairs. I suppose always using their left hand on the
hand rail is a harder habit to break.

> I ride far left, at about 6km/h, a fast walk.
> what do they do? twice now, I've seen a lone walker approaching.
> they were walking on their far RIGHT. they see me from far way,
> I see them, there is no other traffic on the pathway.
> behold, about 4 meters from me they swerve RIGHT onto the grass to
> pass me, yet there is a 3meter wide paved pathway available to the
> left.

This is probably because of what they were taught when they were kids. When
walking along a road with no sidewalk, you are supposed to walk AGAINST the
flow of traffic (in your case, on the left side of the road) so you have a
better opportunity to see traffic and head for the ditch if you need to. Now
that you are in their domain, they see you as traffic and feel the need to
walk against the flow of traffic so they can head for the ditch where it is
safe. They are used to cars passing on their left when they walk down the
road, so why wouldn't a bicycle do the same?

> ... to suspect all pedestrians of being
> very vague and disconnected from the process of walking.

Now this is a true statement. Pedestrians are just unpredictable. I think it
has to do with their speed and their ability to switch directions on whim.
Joggers are much more predictable, partly because their attention is focused
on moving forward, partly because it is harder for them to quickly change
directions.

The best solution is to move at the same pace as the pedestrians, make all
of your moves as obvious and predictable as possible, give pedestrians as
much room as possible, and finally, avoid riding where pedestrians are
likely to be found (interpreted as, get your bike off the sidewalk).

-Buck

10-07-2003, 07:28 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Claire Petersky) wrote:

> "H. M. Leary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
>
> > I hope you don¹t reclaim your ³ownership² in front of a municipal bus or
> > tractor
> > trailer. No one wants you to be a hood ornament.
> >
> > I find that truly aggressive people behave that way wether walking,
> > driving, or
> > riding.
> >
> > I don¹t like giving up my rights, but doing so is much better than being
> > DEAD
> > right.
> >
> > Always navigate by the laws of gross tonnage. Live long and prosper!
>
> You don't understand how this works, do you?

I¹ve been riding for 50 years. I must understand something??
I am not going to exorcise my rights in front of a semi going 50mph, or ( in
Philadelphia ) a bus which is going to pass me anyway just to pull over at the
bus stop 100 feet ahead.

> It's not a matter of being aggressive. It's not a matter of giving up
> anything. It's not a matter of being unsafe.

Your right!

You haven¹t ridden around here with all the soccer moms in their oversized SUVs,
late to pick up Junior, have you??

> Warm Regards,
>
> Claire
Thank you

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

10-07-2003, 07:30 AM

"H. M. Leary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]...

> I hope you don¹t reclaim your ³ownership² in front of a municipal bus or
tractor
> trailer. No one wants you to be a hood ornament.

Very few people will attempt to kill you directly.
More likely to happen if they haven't seen you properly or they do something
like try to overtake in the wrong place/ badly.
Unless you live where there are plenty of psychos then its better to bet on
claiming your ownership.

10-07-2003, 07:52 AM

In article <bluilm$ofe$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "W K" <hyagillot@tesco.net>
wrote:

> "H. M. Leary" <mikie357@forgedabit.net> wrote in message
> news:mikie357-282E85.09280406102003@news.verizon.net...
>
> > I hope you don¹t reclaim your ³ownership² in front of a municipal bus or
> tractor
> > trailer. No one wants you to be a hood ornament.
>
> Very few people will attempt to kill you directly.
> More likely to happen if they haven't seen you properly or they do something
> like try to overtake in the wrong place/ badly.
> Unless you live where there are plenty of psychos then its better to bet on
> claiming your ownership.
>
>

I did not intend to start a flame war, only to agree with Claire and wish her
Œwarm regards².

We obviously have more psychos along the I-95 corridor than in other parts of
the country...

I actually have a hard and soft cover of John Forrester¹s ³Effective Cycling²,
and Pennsylvania has a ³Bicycle Drivers Manual² - mostly excerpts from the above.

I am just trying to encourage cyclists to be aware of their enviornment and ride
accordingly.

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

10-07-2003, 01:39 PM

"H. M. Leary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
> In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Claire Petersky) wrote:
>
> > "H. M. Leary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
> > news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
> >
> > > I hope you don¹t reclaim your ³ownership² in front of a municipal bus or
> > > tractor
> > > trailer. No one wants you to be a hood ornament.
> > >
> > > I find that truly aggressive people behave that way wether walking,
> > > driving, or
> > > riding.
> > >
> > > I don¹t like giving up my rights, but doing so is much better than being
> > > DEAD
> > > right.
> > >
> > > Always navigate by the laws of gross tonnage. Live long and prosper!
> >
> > You don't understand how this works, do you?
>
> I¹ve been riding for 50 years. I must understand something??
> I am not going to exorcise my rights in front of a semi going 50mph, or ( in
> Philadelphia ) a bus which is going to pass me anyway just to pull over at
> the bus stop 100 feet ahead.

This is neither a matter of exorcising or exercising one's rights.

> > It's not a matter of being aggressive. It's not a matter of giving up
> > anything. It's not a matter of being unsafe.
>
> You're right!
>
> You haven¹t ridden around here with all the soccer moms in their oversized
> SUVs, late to pick up Junior, have you??

Not around there, but around here. As a matter of fact, until I
increased my hours this fall at work, I was commuting precisely at the
kid pick-up and drop off times.

But HAND, again, this is not about being aggressive, unkind, stupid,
or unsafe.

You've got to ride, I believe, from the inside out. Both aggression
and timidity come from the same place, a place of insecurity and
neediness, inside yourself.

What you've got to do is not ride from this place of insecurity and
neediness, but a place of security and abundance. Then you know it is
not a matter of competition between you and the rest of traffic, but
one in which you are just another salmon in the stream, another part
of the great flow.

You don't put yourself out there in front of that barreling semi-truck
because you don't need to. You have nothing to prove here. You
magnamiously allow the semi to pass you -- because you are generous
with your pavement, and it is no skin off of your nose.

There may be times, though, when you need your pavement, there can be
no question, because you need it to protect your safety. And you take
it. No one gives you any guff about it, because everyone respects you
and your place on the road.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])
Home of the meditative cyclist:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Singing with you at: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

10-07-2003, 09:39 PM

In article <hhzgb.61316$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
Buck <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote:
>"DejaVU" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].ac.za> wrote in message
>news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].ac.za...
>> Badger South <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].Virginia.EDU> scribed in
>> >I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the
>> >bikers. I guess it comes from long experience and the
>> >inevitability of the issue.
>>
>> hey, mate I'm on your side. pedestrians are hazardous!
>
>There is a big difference between being on someone's side and just doing
>something silly. "Badger" demonstrated a pattern of riding in a manner that
>was dangerous to himself and pedestrians. This made him a poor ambassador

I got better. Nary a flesh wound.

>Now this is a true statement. Pedestrians are just unpredictable. I think it
>has to do with their speed and their ability to switch directions on whim.
>Joggers are much more predictable, partly because their attention is focused
>on moving forward, partly because it is harder for them to quickly change
>directions.

When I walk with my wife, she's like a demented hummingbird, and
will never walk -with- me. She's always diving into the
shrubbery and woods, and looking at moss and little critters.
It drives me nuts. 'No dear, I don't want to look at the little
snail. I know they're little and snail-like; yes the moss is
very green this year...', I smile.

Her attention is -never- on moving forwards. <g>

-B
--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

10-08-2003, 06:23 AM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] >,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Claire Petersky) wrote:

snip
> > >
> > > You don't understand how this works, do you?
> >
> > I¹ve been riding for 50 years. I must understand something??
> > I am not going to exorcise my rights in front of a semi going 50mph, or (
> > in
> > Philadelphia ) a bus which is going to pass me anyway just to pull over at
> > the bus stop 100 feet ahead.
>
> This is neither a matter of exorcising or exercising one's rights.
>
Thank you Claire for correcting my spelling or using the wrong word. I shall try
to be more careful in the future!
snip
>
> But HAND, again, this is not about being aggressive, unkind, stupid,
> or unsafe.

HAND stands for: ³Have A Nice Day!²

> You've got to ride, I believe, from the inside out. Both aggression
> and timidity come from the same place, a place of insecurity and
> neediness, inside yourself.
>
> What you've got to do is not ride from this place of insecurity and
> neediness, but a place of security and abundance. Then you know it is
> not a matter of competition between you and the rest of traffic, but
> one in which you are just another salmon in the stream, another part
> of the great flow.
>
> You don't put yourself out there in front of that barreling semi-truck
> because you don't need to. You have nothing to prove here. You
> magnamiously allow the semi to pass you -- because you are generous
> with your pavement, and it is no skin off of your nose.
>
> There may be times, though, when you need your pavement, there can be
> no question, because you need it to protect your safety. And you take
> it. No one gives you any guff about it, because everyone respects you
> and your place on the road.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Claire Petersky ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])
snip

Right again, Claire!
As a classic example of a Type A personality, I have never been timmid

Have A Nice Day!

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

10-08-2003, 07:25 PM

"H. M. Leary" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>...
> HAND stands for: ³Have A Nice Day!²

!!! I've always thought your name was HAND M. Leary! Blow me away!

Warm Regards,

Claire

no .sig, it got blown away in that wonderful tailwind late this afternoon