Two cyclists attacked and beaten in Portland - Page 7 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

01-17-2007, 09:45 AM

Mark Hickey wrote:
> Stephen Harding <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>Bill Baka wrote:
>>
>>>half the price. I've had to train (and once fire) guys with Ph.d.s who
>>>really almost did not know which end of a screwdriver to hold. It would
>>
>>PhD's making use of screwdrivers???
>>
>>What sort of jobs were they doing?
>
>
> I certainly hope the MD who replaced my wife's ACL knew how to use a
> screwdriver (there being about half a dozen titanium - of course -
> screws that initially held the whole knee together).

Well certainly in the "MD" context of "PhD" one might not
be surprised at good tool use skills.

When it comes to bone reconstruction, never mind the screw
driver! It's the *power tools* that provide the thrill!

SMH

01-17-2007, 09:55 AM

Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:

> Prosecutors had considered charging the teens, who are black, with hate
> crimes after one of them said Ryan was attacked because he was a "goofy
> white kid."
>
> Milan said the spirit of the hate crime laws is to increase misdemeanors
> to felonies.

I have to say I think the "hate crime" laws are ridiculous.

Apparently it's worse to beat someone up while hurling
racial insults than it is to beat someone up because you
want their money.

SMH

01-17-2007, 03:34 PM

"Stephen Harding" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
news:Hqtrh.8837$Wz.7307@trndny06...
> Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
>
>> Prosecutors had considered charging the teens, who are black, with hate
>> crimes after one of them said Ryan was attacked because he was a "goofy
>> white kid."
>>
>> Milan said the spirit of the hate crime laws is to increase misdemeanors
>> to felonies.
>
> I have to say I think the "hate crime" laws are ridiculous.
>
> Apparently it's worse to beat someone up while hurling
> racial insults than it is to beat someone up because you
> want their money.
>
>

I also think they're ridiculous, but if they are going to be enforced they
MUST be enforced equally. It's not OK to only enforce them when a member of
a minority class is a victim, but not when white people are.

01-17-2007, 07:26 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Mark Hickey <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]l (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>>So I have the feeling these victims may have been
>>picked-on because they were /perceived/ as "rich chicks"
>>with fancy, expensive bikes, sticking their /perceived/
>>Conspicuous Consumerism in other people's faces.
>>
>>Or maybe the perps thought the cyclists were gay,
>>and it's a case of [misguided] gay-bashing?
>>
>>I dunno.
>>
>>But as a life-long city boy, I do know when I'm
>>confrontin'. And I know when to back-off.
>>
>>I guess these ladies didn't.
>
> Would you say the same about if the victims had been black and a group
> of affluent white girls had attacked them because of their hip-hop
> dress and attitude? If only they had "backed off"...
>
> Exactly how DO you "back off" when your "insult" is being white and
> riding a bike? Personally, I'm not quite sure how to do that. I've
> ridden thousands of miles through predominantly black neighborhoods
> and never realized that I needed to "back off".

My mind's eye pictures the account in question as
a group of bullies challenging any oncoming potential
victims, by blocking their path. I wouldn't be
surprised if the oncoming cyclists unwittingly
answered their challenge by being unwilling to
deviate from the bike lane, and all hell
subsequently broke loose.

It's a mistake to ascribe bullying as an intrinsic
trait to any "race", culture or ethnicity. I note
you verify that yourself when you say: "I've ridden
thousands of miles through predominantly black
neighborhoods and never realized that I needed to
"back off"."

As for me, I've never ridden through a predominantly
black neighbourhood. But I have ridden as much as
you through predominantly working-class, mixed
industrial/commercial/residential neighbourhoods
with an ethnic blend of immigrants, post-WWII/Cold War
refugees, colonists, indigenous people, and others.
I bet your "predominantly black" neighbourhoods are
equally prone to bullyism as my blended neighbourhoods.

Because it's not about "race," or culture, or ethnicity.
It's about what makes individual punks' minds tick.

My gut instinct tells me these cyclists were
arbitrarily ambushed. The Obvious Ambush is one
of the gregarious bullies' favourite tactics; it's
terroristic in nature. You can either go through,
or go around. Whichever you choose, they "win".
It's generally better to go around (or, to "back off.")
So, hell, why not just accuse 'em of terrorism and send
'em off to Guantanemo?

That one witness uncorroboratedly states hearing /a/
(single) "racial" slur is simply not enough to pin this
incident on "racism" -- that's just too much of a stretch.
But it smacks of just plain ol' bullying, by just plain
ol' People.

cheers, & there's no such thing as "race" among homo sapiens,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-17-2007, 09:33 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
"Roger Zoul" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:

> I tell you what....I'm surprised the ladies on bikes let them get so close.

I think the punkettes were just standing there,
and it was the ladies on bikes who got close.

> It's hard to know the circumstances, but if I were riding and saw them
> threatening kids ahead in the bike lane, I'd have either turned around or
> swung wide with speed.

Same here, more or less.

> Could be the problem started with the kids standing
> in the bike lane and the cyclists trying to use that lane too.

I still intuitively "feel" the kids were /daring/
anybody else in the bike lane. Bullying doesn't
need external triggers. It's internally triggered.
That's what makes it bullying -- arbitrarily picking-on
anyone available. The cyclists did nothing wrong.
They just rode into a trap they didn't perceive.

As for "where the problem started": maybe the problem started
with the kids' upbringings. I know that sounds like glib
Liberal crap, but gee whiz -- when kids aren't taught values,
or respect for their fellow people (or themselves,) or creativity,
or appreciation, or constructiveness, or acceptance -- we're
creating horrible monsters for our posterity, adopting stupid
notions about the value of humanity.

Then we've got to develop a prison industry to deal with
the horrible monsters we create. Because /we/ don't have
enough values, or respect for our fellow people (or ourselves,)
or creativity, or appreciation, or constructiveness, or
acceptance, to think-up anything better.

I guess if we were better, then /We/ would be better.

I'm tryin' to do my part. Sometimes I don't do so good.
Sometimes I do. But I'm still working at it.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-17-2007, 10:52 PM

"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@bud.garden.local> wrote in message
news:rr0noe.o33.ln@bud.garden.local...
> In article <12qq2rm602imtcd@news.supernews.com>,
> "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> I tell you what....I'm surprised the ladies on bikes let them get so
>> close.
>
> I think the punkettes were just standing there,
> and it was the ladies on bikes who got close.
>
>> It's hard to know the circumstances, but if I were riding and saw them
>> threatening kids ahead in the bike lane, I'd have either turned around or
>> swung wide with speed.
>
> Same here, more or less.
>
>> Could be the problem started with the kids standing
>> in the bike lane and the cyclists trying to use that lane too.
>
> I still intuitively "feel" the kids were /daring/
> anybody else in the bike lane. Bullying doesn't
> need external triggers. It's internally triggered.
> That's what makes it bullying -- arbitrarily picking-on
> anyone available. The cyclists did nothing wrong.
> They just rode into a trap they didn't perceive.
>
> As for "where the problem started": maybe the problem started
> with the kids' upbringings. I know that sounds like glib
> Liberal crap, but gee whiz -- when kids aren't taught values,
> or respect for their fellow people (or themselves,) or creativity,
> or appreciation, or constructiveness, or acceptance -- we're
> creating horrible monsters for our posterity, adopting stupid
> notions about the value of humanity.
>
> Then we've got to develop a prison industry to deal with
> the horrible monsters we create. Because /we/ don't have
> enough values, or respect for our fellow people (or ourselves,)
> or creativity, or appreciation, or constructiveness, or
> acceptance, to think-up anything better.
>
> I guess if we were better, then /We/ would be better.
>
> I'm tryin' to do my part. Sometimes I don't do so good.
> Sometimes I do. But I'm still working at it.
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> Above address is just a spam midden.
> I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

You practicing to be the next Dalai Lama?

01-17-2007, 11:36 PM

In article <7PErh.681535$5R2.370991@pd7urf3no>,
"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> writes:

>> I guess if we were better, then /We/ would be better.
>>
>> I'm tryin' to do my part. Sometimes I don't do so good.
>> Sometimes I do. But I'm still working at it.

> You practicing to be the next Dalai Lama?

No. Just a better "me".

Maybe cycling does that to us.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-18-2007, 01:13 AM

In article <Hqtrh.8837$Wz.7307@trndny06>,
Stephen Harding <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
>
>> Prosecutors had considered charging the teens, who are black, with hate
>> crimes after one of them said Ryan was attacked because he was a "goofy
>> white kid."
>>
>> Milan said the spirit of the hate crime laws is to increase misdemeanors
>> to felonies.
>
> I have to say I think the "hate crime" laws are ridiculous.

As I understand it, "hate crime"/anti-hate laws were drawn-up
to deal with KKK rabble disturbing peaceful neighbourhoods,
incitors publishing & distributing propaganda with intent
to stir-up hateful passions, vandals destructively targeting
and desecrating places of worship & religion-specific cemeteries,
and violent gay-bashers.

I don't think that's ridiculous at all.

What /is/ ridiculous is to invoke those laws at
the drop of a hat.

It's almost as ridiculous as to cry "racism" at the
merest suggestion of a single, anti-[insert label here]
epiphet possibly being uttered, such as in the
incident described and cited in the Original Post.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

01-18-2007, 06:48 AM

Tom Keats wrote:

> As I understand it, "hate crime"/anti-hate laws were drawn-up
> to deal with KKK rabble disturbing peaceful neighbourhoods,
> incitors publishing & distributing propaganda with intent
> to stir-up hateful passions, vandals destructively targeting
> and desecrating places of worship & religion-specific cemeteries,
> and violent gay-bashers.

I don't think so. AFAIK, the KKK has always been able to
march pretty much where it wants to as a basic freedom of
speech.

Currently, there is a low down sleazy group that goes to
funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and demonstrate within
sight of the service itself with some pretty nasty signs.

So far, freedom of speech rights are protecting them from
any sort of prosecution.

I think they're more the result of a perhaps well intentioned
effort to penalize racist sentiment. How it is being used
as far as I've seen is ridiculous and may actually be promoting
racist thinking to some degree, because I too have noticed
that it always seems to be applied against Whites by a
victimized minority, whereas minority on white crime is just
considered crime.

Haven't seen any real statistics on it though. I do know
most Black crime is directed hugely towards fellow Blacks,
not Whites (which is natural since crime is largely a local
thing).

SMH

01-18-2007, 06:55 AM

Tom Keats wrote:

> cheers, & there's no such thing as "race" among homo sapiens,

If Homo sapiens thinks there is, there is!

If there is no such thing as race, then how can there be
such a thing as racism?

There is at least 200 years of American history that says
there *is* racism, so there must be race.

And there is plenty of the same from places outside of
the US as well, over a much longer period of time than
the US has existed.

SMH