Hit and Run - Page 47 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-05-2004, 08:52 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] writes:

> In ba.bicycles Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>> I don't see how bike lanes or "traffic calming" would help the
>> problem that I'm pointing out: drivers at cross streets don't
>> stop at their stop signs and don't look both ways before
>> crossing.
>
> I don't remember: do these intersections have "cross traffic does not
> stop" warning signs?

What does it matter? A driver who can't tell whether cross
traffic has to stop should not be driving.
--
Ben Pfaff
email: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
web: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

06-05-2004, 11:02 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>From your other postings, you seem to think that this is just a
>fact of life. I am somewhat sympathetic--except that this is a
>designated and marked "Bike Boulevard". Does this designation
>mean anything at all? Frankly I often feel safer on faster roads
>with wide shoulders/bike lanes. For example, I rarely (never?)
>have the same trouble at intersections on Foothill, Central (both
>45 mph), or Page Mill (35 mph but everyone speeds like mad) that
>I do on Bryant (25 mph). If they took me where I needed to go
>I'd use them for commuting instead of Bryant.

Maybe it has to do with residential area bicyclists being mostly
slow bicyclists (children, or occasional bicyclists), so that a
fast bicyclist (15-25mph) is an unexpected surprise (e.g. turning
in front of a bicyclist assumed to be going 8mph may be dangerous
if the bicyclist is actually going 20mph). Bicyclists on higher
speed roads like Foothill Expressway tend to be mostly faster
bicyclists, so that motorists on those roads are more likely to
be accustomed to fast bicyclists.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

06-05-2004, 11:02 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>From your other postings, you seem to think that this is just a
>fact of life. I am somewhat sympathetic--except that this is a
>designated and marked "Bike Boulevard". Does this designation
>mean anything at all? Frankly I often feel safer on faster roads
>with wide shoulders/bike lanes. For example, I rarely (never?)
>have the same trouble at intersections on Foothill, Central (both
>45 mph), or Page Mill (35 mph but everyone speeds like mad) that
>I do on Bryant (25 mph). If they took me where I needed to go
>I'd use them for commuting instead of Bryant.

Maybe it has to do with residential area bicyclists being mostly
slow bicyclists (children, or occasional bicyclists), so that a
fast bicyclist (15-25mph) is an unexpected surprise (e.g. turning
in front of a bicyclist assumed to be going 8mph may be dangerous
if the bicyclist is actually going 20mph). Bicyclists on higher
speed roads like Foothill Expressway tend to be mostly faster
bicyclists, so that motorists on those roads are more likely to
be accustomed to fast bicyclists.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

06-05-2004, 11:02 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>From your other postings, you seem to think that this is just a
>fact of life. I am somewhat sympathetic--except that this is a
>designated and marked "Bike Boulevard". Does this designation
>mean anything at all? Frankly I often feel safer on faster roads
>with wide shoulders/bike lanes. For example, I rarely (never?)
>have the same trouble at intersections on Foothill, Central (both
>45 mph), or Page Mill (35 mph but everyone speeds like mad) that
>I do on Bryant (25 mph). If they took me where I needed to go
>I'd use them for commuting instead of Bryant.

Maybe it has to do with residential area bicyclists being mostly
slow bicyclists (children, or occasional bicyclists), so that a
fast bicyclist (15-25mph) is an unexpected surprise (e.g. turning
in front of a bicyclist assumed to be going 8mph may be dangerous
if the bicyclist is actually going 20mph). Bicyclists on higher
speed roads like Foothill Expressway tend to be mostly faster
bicyclists, so that motorists on those roads are more likely to
be accustomed to fast bicyclists.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

06-05-2004, 11:02 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>From your other postings, you seem to think that this is just a
>fact of life. I am somewhat sympathetic--except that this is a
>designated and marked "Bike Boulevard". Does this designation
>mean anything at all? Frankly I often feel safer on faster roads
>with wide shoulders/bike lanes. For example, I rarely (never?)
>have the same trouble at intersections on Foothill, Central (both
>45 mph), or Page Mill (35 mph but everyone speeds like mad) that
>I do on Bryant (25 mph). If they took me where I needed to go
>I'd use them for commuting instead of Bryant.

Maybe it has to do with residential area bicyclists being mostly
slow bicyclists (children, or occasional bicyclists), so that a
fast bicyclist (15-25mph) is an unexpected surprise (e.g. turning
in front of a bicyclist assumed to be going 8mph may be dangerous
if the bicyclist is actually going 20mph). Bicyclists on higher
speed roads like Foothill Expressway tend to be mostly faster
bicyclists, so that motorists on those roads are more likely to
be accustomed to fast bicyclists.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

06-05-2004, 11:02 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>From your other postings, you seem to think that this is just a
>fact of life. I am somewhat sympathetic--except that this is a
>designated and marked "Bike Boulevard". Does this designation
>mean anything at all? Frankly I often feel safer on faster roads
>with wide shoulders/bike lanes. For example, I rarely (never?)
>have the same trouble at intersections on Foothill, Central (both
>45 mph), or Page Mill (35 mph but everyone speeds like mad) that
>I do on Bryant (25 mph). If they took me where I needed to go
>I'd use them for commuting instead of Bryant.

Maybe it has to do with residential area bicyclists being mostly
slow bicyclists (children, or occasional bicyclists), so that a
fast bicyclist (15-25mph) is an unexpected surprise (e.g. turning
in front of a bicyclist assumed to be going 8mph may be dangerous
if the bicyclist is actually going 20mph). Bicyclists on higher
speed roads like Foothill Expressway tend to be mostly faster
bicyclists, so that motorists on those roads are more likely to
be accustomed to fast bicyclists.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

06-06-2004, 02:38 AM

Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:06:42 -0400, <40c1df90$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>,
Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>How would you have the button in reach of a cyclist, without having it
>be a collision hazard?
>
>What if a cyclist intended to make a left turn? Would he push the
>button on the right side of the road, then drag the bike over toward the
>left?

Yes, or ignore the button altogether and trust the buried sensors to
pick up the bike.

Unfortunately, they're most often stuck on a post at the curb. Some
are on small diverter islands in the center of a traffic calmed
street.

Many streets, especially around schools, that aren't yet specifically
designated cycling routes are getting them too.

I've not yet noticed any intersections with punch buttons accessible
from both the left and right sides of the lane.

There's only certain times of day at some intersections that I even
bother to use them. I figure if I punch the button then I'd better
wait for the light but there's often breaks in cross traffic sooner
than the light cycle stops it. That and the sequence is usually far
longer than it takes a bicycle to clear the intersection. Sure,
they're handy sometimes but mostly I don't need them.
--
zk

06-06-2004, 02:38 AM

Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:06:42 -0400, <40c1df90$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>,
Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>How would you have the button in reach of a cyclist, without having it
>be a collision hazard?
>
>What if a cyclist intended to make a left turn? Would he push the
>button on the right side of the road, then drag the bike over toward the
>left?

Yes, or ignore the button altogether and trust the buried sensors to
pick up the bike.

Unfortunately, they're most often stuck on a post at the curb. Some
are on small diverter islands in the center of a traffic calmed
street.

Many streets, especially around schools, that aren't yet specifically
designated cycling routes are getting them too.

I've not yet noticed any intersections with punch buttons accessible
from both the left and right sides of the lane.

There's only certain times of day at some intersections that I even
bother to use them. I figure if I punch the button then I'd better
wait for the light but there's often breaks in cross traffic sooner
than the light cycle stops it. That and the sequence is usually far
longer than it takes a bicycle to clear the intersection. Sure,
they're handy sometimes but mostly I don't need them.
--
zk

06-06-2004, 02:38 AM

Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:06:42 -0400, <40c1df90$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>,
Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>How would you have the button in reach of a cyclist, without having it
>be a collision hazard?
>
>What if a cyclist intended to make a left turn? Would he push the
>button on the right side of the road, then drag the bike over toward the
>left?

Yes, or ignore the button altogether and trust the buried sensors to
pick up the bike.

Unfortunately, they're most often stuck on a post at the curb. Some
are on small diverter islands in the center of a traffic calmed
street.

Many streets, especially around schools, that aren't yet specifically
designated cycling routes are getting them too.

I've not yet noticed any intersections with punch buttons accessible
from both the left and right sides of the lane.

There's only certain times of day at some intersections that I even
bother to use them. I figure if I punch the button then I'd better
wait for the light but there's often breaks in cross traffic sooner
than the light cycle stops it. That and the sequence is usually far
longer than it takes a bicycle to clear the intersection. Sure,
they're handy sometimes but mostly I don't need them.
--
zk

06-06-2004, 02:38 AM

Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:06:42 -0400, <40c1df90$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>,
Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>How would you have the button in reach of a cyclist, without having it
>be a collision hazard?
>
>What if a cyclist intended to make a left turn? Would he push the
>button on the right side of the road, then drag the bike over toward the
>left?

Yes, or ignore the button altogether and trust the buried sensors to
pick up the bike.

Unfortunately, they're most often stuck on a post at the curb. Some
are on small diverter islands in the center of a traffic calmed
street.

Many streets, especially around schools, that aren't yet specifically
designated cycling routes are getting them too.

I've not yet noticed any intersections with punch buttons accessible
from both the left and right sides of the lane.

There's only certain times of day at some intersections that I even
bother to use them. I figure if I punch the button then I'd better
wait for the light but there's often breaks in cross traffic sooner
than the light cycle stops it. That and the sequence is usually far
longer than it takes a bicycle to clear the intersection. Sure,
they're handy sometimes but mostly I don't need them.
--
zk