Hit and Run - Page 51 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-06-2004, 08:24 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]>,
Zoot Katz <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> writes:
> Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:06:42 -0400, <40c1df90$[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].edu>,
> Frank Krygowski <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>
>>How would you have the button in reach of a cyclist, without having it
>>be a collision hazard?
>>
>>What if a cyclist intended to make a left turn? Would he push the
>>button on the right side of the road, then drag the bike over toward the
>>left?
>
> Yes, or ignore the button altogether and trust the buried sensors to
> pick up the bike.

Earles & 45th, and 45th & Kerr are a couple of intersections
with both sensor-loop and push-button options; there are, of
course, others, but maybe not enough. I've spotted a few places
having almost /every/ kind of pavement cut: circle, diamond and
double-rectangle, all overlapping each other. Generally it seems
the double-rectangle is the real one.

> Unfortunately, they're most often stuck on a post at the curb. Some
> are on small diverter islands in the center of a traffic calmed
> street.

The one at 37th & Main is especially convenient for hanging a
left onto south-bound Main off east-bound 37th. Likewise
coming off of north-bound Ontario onto east-bound King Edward.
Ontario & 49th also springs to mind, as well as Ontario & 16th.

> Many streets, especially around schools, that aren't yet specifically
> designated cycling routes are getting them too.
>
> I've not yet noticed any intersections with punch buttons accessible
> from both the left and right sides of the lane.

Of course those push-buttons on the little centre islands can be
treated as straight-through/left-turn lanes, while the uncontrolled,
un-islanded portion of the street to the right is a sort of 'right-
turn-only' lane. In fact, according to the signage, it's /supposed/
to be for cars, but many of 'em go straight through, and some even
turn left from there.

If the street you're riding on is fairly non-busy and wide enough,
it's generally no sweat to push the right-side button and
carefully & warily do an 0-turn and come up on the left of your
(unstriped) 'lane'. Although the light may well change in your
favour while you're busy going through all that maneouvering.
If it's a narrower unstriped street, I'd just as well be rightward
anyway, having been clobbered once by someone hanging a left off
the cross street and cutting the corner -- right into me.

> There's only certain times of day at some intersections that I even
> bother to use them. I figure if I punch the button then I'd better
> wait for the light but there's often breaks in cross traffic sooner
> than the light cycle stops it. That and the sequence is usually far
> longer than it takes a bicycle to clear the intersection. Sure,
> they're handy sometimes but mostly I don't need them.

I'm very much the same way. On the more frequently used routes
there's often a rider coming the other way who pushes the button
on their side of the intersection anyway, or a pedestrian, while
you're waiting for a break in the traffic. It's handy to keep a
whether-eye open for that coming up, when setting-up for a
left turn.

Where sight-lines are particularly bad because of humps & hills
(like 23rd & Fraser), I /really/ appreciate push-button lights.
That's why I think there should be one at Dumfries & King Edward/
Kingsway, if they're going to push a bike route through there.

I'm loathe to push the button when there's just li'l ol' me
crossing the intersection. If I see anyone approaching from
a distance, ahead or behind, I'll wait for them and time my
button-push so we can all use the light. I especially give
that courtesy to huffing-&-puffing freds struggling to make
the light. I get a lot of 'Thank you-s,' doing that.

Funny thing is, the timing of some of these lights is instantaneous
(37th & Fraser), while others appear more arbitrary (37th & Main).
It's a real PITA to push the button, wait for the light, and it
finally changes in your favour when there's nobody there and
you've got a break in the cross traffic anyway. Or, as you say,
pass-up on breaks in the traffic while waiting for your light,
and end up stopping a bunch of people when the light finally
does change.

I think just the fact that there are traffic light signals at
all at such intersections works in our favour, whether we
push the button or not. I think the traffic-light fixtures
hanging up there serve well, just by alerting the drivers to
be aware of cross traffic.

The City seems reluctant to put push-button lights on King Edward,
even though quite a number of our bike routes cross it.
Interesting, eh?

cheers,
Tom

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06-07-2004, 12:10 AM

In article <h4n0ac.hh11.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) writes:

> left onto south-bound Main off east-bound 37th.

I meant north-bound Main. I get a little dyslexic
sometimes.

When I'm going there, I get it right -- I just sometimes
describe it wrong.

Towards the mountains, Windsor Meats, & Helen's Grille.
Y'know what i mean.

cheers,
Tom

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06-07-2004, 12:10 AM

In article <h4n0ac.hh11.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) writes:

> left onto south-bound Main off east-bound 37th.

I meant north-bound Main. I get a little dyslexic
sometimes.

When I'm going there, I get it right -- I just sometimes
describe it wrong.

Towards the mountains, Windsor Meats, & Helen's Grille.
Y'know what i mean.

cheers,
Tom

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06-07-2004, 12:10 AM

In article <h4n0ac.hh11.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) writes:

> left onto south-bound Main off east-bound 37th.

I meant north-bound Main. I get a little dyslexic
sometimes.

When I'm going there, I get it right -- I just sometimes
describe it wrong.

Towards the mountains, Windsor Meats, & Helen's Grille.
Y'know what i mean.

cheers,
Tom

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-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-07-2004, 12:10 AM

In article <h4n0ac.hh11.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) writes:

> left onto south-bound Main off east-bound 37th.

I meant north-bound Main. I get a little dyslexic
sometimes.

When I'm going there, I get it right -- I just sometimes
describe it wrong.

Towards the mountains, Windsor Meats, & Helen's Grille.
Y'know what i mean.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-07-2004, 12:10 AM

In article <h4n0ac.hh11.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) writes:

> left onto south-bound Main off east-bound 37th.

I meant north-bound Main. I get a little dyslexic
sometimes.

When I'm going there, I get it right -- I just sometimes
describe it wrong.

Towards the mountains, Windsor Meats, & Helen's Grille.
Y'know what i mean.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-07-2004, 12:16 AM

In ba.bicycles Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>> I don't remember: do these intersections have "cross traffic does not
>> stop" warning signs?

> What does it matter? A driver who can't tell whether cross
> traffic has to stop should not be driving.

Err well again in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. Do you suggest
that we abolish all such yellow warning signs? After all a driver who
can't recognize a hazardous situation should not be driving.

Of course it is no excuse, but given that most streets in the vicinity
of Bryant have 4-way stops, drivers who are accustomed to rolling
through stops when they are the first to reach an intersection, may
use more caution if they see a warning sign.

-- Dave

06-07-2004, 12:16 AM

In ba.bicycles Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>> I don't remember: do these intersections have "cross traffic does not
>> stop" warning signs?

> What does it matter? A driver who can't tell whether cross
> traffic has to stop should not be driving.

Err well again in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. Do you suggest
that we abolish all such yellow warning signs? After all a driver who
can't recognize a hazardous situation should not be driving.

Of course it is no excuse, but given that most streets in the vicinity
of Bryant have 4-way stops, drivers who are accustomed to rolling
through stops when they are the first to reach an intersection, may
use more caution if they see a warning sign.

-- Dave

06-07-2004, 12:16 AM

In ba.bicycles Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>> I don't remember: do these intersections have "cross traffic does not
>> stop" warning signs?

> What does it matter? A driver who can't tell whether cross
> traffic has to stop should not be driving.

Err well again in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. Do you suggest
that we abolish all such yellow warning signs? After all a driver who
can't recognize a hazardous situation should not be driving.

Of course it is no excuse, but given that most streets in the vicinity
of Bryant have 4-way stops, drivers who are accustomed to rolling
through stops when they are the first to reach an intersection, may
use more caution if they see a warning sign.

-- Dave

06-07-2004, 12:16 AM

In ba.bicycles Ben Pfaff <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>> I don't remember: do these intersections have "cross traffic does not
>> stop" warning signs?

> What does it matter? A driver who can't tell whether cross
> traffic has to stop should not be driving.

Err well again in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. Do you suggest
that we abolish all such yellow warning signs? After all a driver who
can't recognize a hazardous situation should not be driving.

Of course it is no excuse, but given that most streets in the vicinity
of Bryant have 4-way stops, drivers who are accustomed to rolling
through stops when they are the first to reach an intersection, may
use more caution if they see a warning sign.

-- Dave