Hit and Run - Page 53 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-07-2004, 08:05 PM

> LioNiNoiL_a t_Ne t s c a pE_D 0 T_Ne T [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

wrote in part:

>If a cyclist continues to get himself in
>>>> near miss situations with law breaking motorists on
>>>> the same road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>
>>> See what I mean?
>>
>> I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
>> but these posts have not.
>
>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_ in
>near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists. How do you parse that
>into _not_ blaming the cyclist??

You ignored the important part of the particular post you quote as evidence of
a "blame the cyclist" mentality. The part you ignored describes a cyclist that
*continues* to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added]. That's
quite specific to one cyclist in one situation as opposed to all cyclists or
even cyclists in general. As such it's hardly any indication of the bias you
allege.
If a man burns his hand on a hot stove once it's a learning experience. Maybe
we can blame the burn on poor stove design. OTOH, if that man repeatedly burns
his hand on the same stove we have to consider that maybe the real problem is
that the man doesn't know how to operate the stove.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

06-07-2004, 11:52 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Hunrobe) writes:

> You ignored the important part of the particular post you quote as evidence of
> a "blame the cyclist" mentality. The part you ignored describes a cyclist that
> *continues* to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added]. That's
> quite specific to one cyclist in one situation as opposed to all cyclists or
> even cyclists in general. As such it's hardly any indication of the bias you
> allege.
> If a man burns his hand on a hot stove once it's a learning experience. Maybe
> we can blame the burn on poor stove design. OTOH, if that man repeatedly burns
> his hand on the same stove we have to consider that maybe the real problem is
> that the man doesn't know how to operate the stove.

To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
just telling people to 'be careful'.

But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

Maybe bike route stencils on the street might help?
Couldn't hurt, anyways.

Chances are car drivers on Bryant St are experiencing the
same problem.

cheers,
Tom

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06-07-2004, 11:52 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Hunrobe) writes:

> You ignored the important part of the particular post you quote as evidence of
> a "blame the cyclist" mentality. The part you ignored describes a cyclist that
> *continues* to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added]. That's
> quite specific to one cyclist in one situation as opposed to all cyclists or
> even cyclists in general. As such it's hardly any indication of the bias you
> allege.
> If a man burns his hand on a hot stove once it's a learning experience. Maybe
> we can blame the burn on poor stove design. OTOH, if that man repeatedly burns
> his hand on the same stove we have to consider that maybe the real problem is
> that the man doesn't know how to operate the stove.

To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
just telling people to 'be careful'.

But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

Maybe bike route stencils on the street might help?
Couldn't hurt, anyways.

Chances are car drivers on Bryant St are experiencing the
same problem.

cheers,
Tom

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06-07-2004, 11:52 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Hunrobe) writes:

> You ignored the important part of the particular post you quote as evidence of
> a "blame the cyclist" mentality. The part you ignored describes a cyclist that
> *continues* to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added]. That's
> quite specific to one cyclist in one situation as opposed to all cyclists or
> even cyclists in general. As such it's hardly any indication of the bias you
> allege.
> If a man burns his hand on a hot stove once it's a learning experience. Maybe
> we can blame the burn on poor stove design. OTOH, if that man repeatedly burns
> his hand on the same stove we have to consider that maybe the real problem is
> that the man doesn't know how to operate the stove.

To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
just telling people to 'be careful'.

But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

Maybe bike route stencils on the street might help?
Couldn't hurt, anyways.

Chances are car drivers on Bryant St are experiencing the
same problem.

cheers,
Tom

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-- Powered by FreeBSD
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06-07-2004, 11:52 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Hunrobe) writes:

> You ignored the important part of the particular post you quote as evidence of
> a "blame the cyclist" mentality. The part you ignored describes a cyclist that
> *continues* to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added]. That's
> quite specific to one cyclist in one situation as opposed to all cyclists or
> even cyclists in general. As such it's hardly any indication of the bias you
> allege.
> If a man burns his hand on a hot stove once it's a learning experience. Maybe
> we can blame the burn on poor stove design. OTOH, if that man repeatedly burns
> his hand on the same stove we have to consider that maybe the real problem is
> that the man doesn't know how to operate the stove.

To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
just telling people to 'be careful'.

But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

Maybe bike route stencils on the street might help?
Couldn't hurt, anyways.

Chances are car drivers on Bryant St are experiencing the
same problem.

cheers,
Tom

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-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

06-07-2004, 11:52 PM

In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].com>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Hunrobe) writes:

> You ignored the important part of the particular post you quote as evidence of
> a "blame the cyclist" mentality. The part you ignored describes a cyclist that
> *continues* to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added]. That's
> quite specific to one cyclist in one situation as opposed to all cyclists or
> even cyclists in general. As such it's hardly any indication of the bias you
> allege.
> If a man burns his hand on a hot stove once it's a learning experience. Maybe
> we can blame the burn on poor stove design. OTOH, if that man repeatedly burns
> his hand on the same stove we have to consider that maybe the real problem is
> that the man doesn't know how to operate the stove.

To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
just telling people to 'be careful'.

But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

Maybe bike route stencils on the street might help?
Couldn't hurt, anyways.

Chances are car drivers on Bryant St are experiencing the
same problem.

cheers,
Tom

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06-08-2004, 01:01 AM

In article <pmn3ac.a641.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
> carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
> I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
> just telling people to 'be careful'.
>
> But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
> alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

In the meantime, suggestions to 'be careful' are all we've
got. But as we all know, being careful is a gimme anyways,
and laying blame at the feet of groups of people (like drivers
going onto Bryant St) doesn't solve anything. OTOH, neither
does expecting street designations as bike routes to
self-enforce.

And my opinions are coloured by my recent experiences of
all the fair-weather riders coming out now, who just love
to heedlessly blast past me as I'm taking care to eyeball
the intersections I'm crossing, and at least properly yielding
to cross-traffic. If they wanna play Speed Racer and take
those chances, and treat city streets like un-intersectioned
airport runways, that's their business, I guess. But then
they've gotta take responsibility for that.

But I'm not saying that's the case here, in this thread.

With apologies for following-up on myself.

cheers,
Tom

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06-08-2004, 01:01 AM

In article <pmn3ac.a641.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
> carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
> I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
> just telling people to 'be careful'.
>
> But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
> alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

In the meantime, suggestions to 'be careful' are all we've
got. But as we all know, being careful is a gimme anyways,
and laying blame at the feet of groups of people (like drivers
going onto Bryant St) doesn't solve anything. OTOH, neither
does expecting street designations as bike routes to
self-enforce.

And my opinions are coloured by my recent experiences of
all the fair-weather riders coming out now, who just love
to heedlessly blast past me as I'm taking care to eyeball
the intersections I'm crossing, and at least properly yielding
to cross-traffic. If they wanna play Speed Racer and take
those chances, and treat city streets like un-intersectioned
airport runways, that's their business, I guess. But then
they've gotta take responsibility for that.

But I'm not saying that's the case here, in this thread.

With apologies for following-up on myself.

cheers,
Tom

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Above address is just a spam midden.
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06-08-2004, 01:01 AM

In article <pmn3ac.a641.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
> carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
> I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
> just telling people to 'be careful'.
>
> But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
> alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

In the meantime, suggestions to 'be careful' are all we've
got. But as we all know, being careful is a gimme anyways,
and laying blame at the feet of groups of people (like drivers
going onto Bryant St) doesn't solve anything. OTOH, neither
does expecting street designations as bike routes to
self-enforce.

And my opinions are coloured by my recent experiences of
all the fair-weather riders coming out now, who just love
to heedlessly blast past me as I'm taking care to eyeball
the intersections I'm crossing, and at least properly yielding
to cross-traffic. If they wanna play Speed Racer and take
those chances, and treat city streets like un-intersectioned
airport runways, that's their business, I guess. But then
they've gotta take responsibility for that.

But I'm not saying that's the case here, in this thread.

With apologies for following-up on myself.

cheers,
Tom

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Above address is just a spam midden.
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06-08-2004, 01:01 AM

In article <pmn3ac.a641.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
> carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
> I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
> just telling people to 'be careful'.
>
> But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
> alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

In the meantime, suggestions to 'be careful' are all we've
got. But as we all know, being careful is a gimme anyways,
and laying blame at the feet of groups of people (like drivers
going onto Bryant St) doesn't solve anything. OTOH, neither
does expecting street designations as bike routes to
self-enforce.

And my opinions are coloured by my recent experiences of
all the fair-weather riders coming out now, who just love
to heedlessly blast past me as I'm taking care to eyeball
the intersections I'm crossing, and at least properly yielding
to cross-traffic. If they wanna play Speed Racer and take
those chances, and treat city streets like un-intersectioned
airport runways, that's their business, I guess. But then
they've gotta take responsibility for that.

But I'm not saying that's the case here, in this thread.

With apologies for following-up on myself.

cheers,
Tom

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