Hit and Run - Page 54 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-08-2004, 01:01 AM

In article <pmn3ac.a641.ln@bud.garden.local>,
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> To be fair, the complaint seems to be mostly about drivers regularly
> carelessly ingressing the street from stop sign-controlled side streets.
> I think that /is/ a problem that should be addressed somehow, beyond
> just telling people to 'be careful'.
>
> But fat lot of good perusers r.b.m can do about it, except maybe
> alert other potential users of that street about the problem.

In the meantime, suggestions to 'be careful' are all we've
got. But as we all know, being careful is a gimme anyways,
and laying blame at the feet of groups of people (like drivers
going onto Bryant St) doesn't solve anything. OTOH, neither
does expecting street designations as bike routes to
self-enforce.

And my opinions are coloured by my recent experiences of
all the fair-weather riders coming out now, who just love
to heedlessly blast past me as I'm taking care to eyeball
the intersections I'm crossing, and at least properly yielding
to cross-traffic. If they wanna play Speed Racer and take
those chances, and treat city streets like un-intersectioned
airport runways, that's their business, I guess. But then
they've gotta take responsibility for that.

But I'm not saying that's the case here, in this thread.

With apologies for following-up on myself.

cheers,
Tom

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06-08-2004, 04:59 PM

>>>>>If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
>>>>>situations with law breaking motorists on the same
>>>>>road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>See what I mean?
>>>
>>>I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
>>>but these posts have not.
>>
>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists. How do
>>you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>
> You ignored the important part of the particular post you
> quote as evidence of a "blame the cyclist" mentality.
> The part you ignored describes a cyclist that *continues*
> to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added].

That straw man you're focussed upon is very good evidence of "blame the
cyclist" mentality: he is a hypothetical cyclist created specifically
for the purpose of taking the blame for _getting himself_ in near-miss
situations with law-breaking motorists.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 04:59 PM

>>>>>If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
>>>>>situations with law breaking motorists on the same
>>>>>road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>See what I mean?
>>>
>>>I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
>>>but these posts have not.
>>
>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists. How do
>>you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>
> You ignored the important part of the particular post you
> quote as evidence of a "blame the cyclist" mentality.
> The part you ignored describes a cyclist that *continues*
> to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added].

That straw man you're focussed upon is very good evidence of "blame the
cyclist" mentality: he is a hypothetical cyclist created specifically
for the purpose of taking the blame for _getting himself_ in near-miss
situations with law-breaking motorists.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 04:59 PM

>>>>>If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
>>>>>situations with law breaking motorists on the same
>>>>>road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>See what I mean?
>>>
>>>I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
>>>but these posts have not.
>>
>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists. How do
>>you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>
> You ignored the important part of the particular post you
> quote as evidence of a "blame the cyclist" mentality.
> The part you ignored describes a cyclist that *continues*
> to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added].

That straw man you're focussed upon is very good evidence of "blame the
cyclist" mentality: he is a hypothetical cyclist created specifically
for the purpose of taking the blame for _getting himself_ in near-miss
situations with law-breaking motorists.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 04:59 PM

>>>>>If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
>>>>>situations with law breaking motorists on the same
>>>>>road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>See what I mean?
>>>
>>>I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
>>>but these posts have not.
>>
>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists. How do
>>you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>
> You ignored the important part of the particular post you
> quote as evidence of a "blame the cyclist" mentality.
> The part you ignored describes a cyclist that *continues*
> to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added].

That straw man you're focussed upon is very good evidence of "blame the
cyclist" mentality: he is a hypothetical cyclist created specifically
for the purpose of taking the blame for _getting himself_ in near-miss
situations with law-breaking motorists.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 04:59 PM

>>>>>If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
>>>>>situations with law breaking motorists on the same
>>>>>road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>See what I mean?
>>>
>>>I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
>>>but these posts have not.
>>
>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists. How do
>>you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>
> You ignored the important part of the particular post you
> quote as evidence of a "blame the cyclist" mentality.
> The part you ignored describes a cyclist that *continues*
> to have near misses *on the same road* [my emphasis added].

That straw man you're focussed upon is very good evidence of "blame the
cyclist" mentality: he is a hypothetical cyclist created specifically
for the purpose of taking the blame for _getting himself_ in near-miss
situations with law-breaking motorists.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 05:04 PM

>>>>>>>Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in
>>>>>>>near miss situations with law breaking motorists on
>>>>>>>the same road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists.
>>>>How do you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>>>
>>>No blame stated, and no blame assigned.
>>
>>If the phrase _there's something wrong with the cyclist_
>>is not an assignation of blame for _getting himself_ in
>>near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists, then
>>what is it??
>
> I'm going to stop answering these questions now.

Good idea.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 05:04 PM

>>>>>>>Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in
>>>>>>>near miss situations with law breaking motorists on
>>>>>>>the same road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists.
>>>>How do you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>>>
>>>No blame stated, and no blame assigned.
>>
>>If the phrase _there's something wrong with the cyclist_
>>is not an assignation of blame for _getting himself_ in
>>near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists, then
>>what is it??
>
> I'm going to stop answering these questions now.

Good idea.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 05:04 PM

>>>>>>>Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in
>>>>>>>near miss situations with law breaking motorists on
>>>>>>>the same road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists.
>>>>How do you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>>>
>>>No blame stated, and no blame assigned.
>>
>>If the phrase _there's something wrong with the cyclist_
>>is not an assignation of blame for _getting himself_ in
>>near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists, then
>>what is it??
>
> I'm going to stop answering these questions now.

Good idea.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.

06-08-2004, 05:04 PM

>>>>>>>Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in
>>>>>>>near miss situations with law breaking motorists on
>>>>>>>the same road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>The post quoted above blames the cyclist for _getting himself_
>>>>in near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists.
>>>>How do you parse that into _not_ blaming the cyclist??
>>>
>>>No blame stated, and no blame assigned.
>>
>>If the phrase _there's something wrong with the cyclist_
>>is not an assignation of blame for _getting himself_ in
>>near-miss situations with law-breaking motorists, then
>>what is it??
>
> I'm going to stop answering these questions now.

Good idea.

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace.
It's not about power -- it's about grace.
It's not about knowing your enemy -- it's about knowing yourself.