Re: Any helmet laws successfully overturned? - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-27-2003, 10:11 AM

>If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137
>lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 * (2/3) = 137
>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

This is a phony argument. For every bicycle head injury that results in
death there are about a thousand head injuries which result in various other
problems including permanent disabilities. Do a google search on bicycle
head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits to get a
better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.

06-27-2003, 01:31 PM

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:11:17 +0000 (UTC), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Dave
Rabinowitz) wrote:

> Do a google search on bicycle
>head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits to get a
>better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.

Treat the results with caution, though, for many reasons including:

- some studies which claim to prove helmet effectiveness also prove
that helmets reduce leg injuries
- helmet laws do not generally apply on private land which is where
over 90% of child head injury cycle accidents happen
- cyclist injury rates in Virginia, Australia, rose following
compulsory helmet legislation
- claims of up to 85% head injury reductions from helmet use fail tyo
account for the proportion of head injuries which are to parts of the
head & face not covered by helmets
- helmets are designed for loss-of-control accidents up to about 12mph
so most adult cyclists will be riding outside their design parameters
much of the time, and all accidents involving motor vehicles will
exceed the design capabilites of the helmet.

I am of the view that children are the one group for helmets
definitely work, but since the majority of these accidents happen
offroad legislation is not an effective way to promote helmet use for
these children. Nor are helmets the first, best way to improve their
safety on or off road (better bike skills are the starting point
there). It is not a coincidence that the most ardent helmet advocates
are paediatricians.

There is a danger that helmets are seen as some kind of panacea, the
polystyrene foam deflector beanie as magic talisman. They distract
attention from primary safety and increase the perception of danger,
which is a self-fulfilling prophecy in that it deters cycling, and the
best way of making cycling safer is undoubtedly for more people to do
it.

For adult cyclists riding a bike even without a helmet, and with only
the average level of skill, the health benefits outweight the
increased dangers by up to 20:1, depending on the particular study and
methodology used. Cycling is *not* dangerous in terms of whole-life
risk, so helmets are one possible way of making a safe activity even
safer. Your chances of suffering serious head injury in a car crash,
particularly the worst type of torsional brain injury, are greater
than in a bike crash.

As an aside there is only one study I know of which incontrovertibly
links helmets with fatality, and that relates to children strangled by
their helmet straps while on play equipment.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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the new ISP.

06-30-2003, 12:16 PM

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:11:17 +0000 (UTC), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Dave
Rabinowitz) wrote:

>>If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137
>>lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 * (2/3) = 137
>>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>
>This is a phony argument. For every bicycle head injury that results in
>death there are about a thousand head injuries which result in various other
>problems including permanent disabilities. Do a google search on bicycle
>head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits to get a
>better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.

Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain
scans to prove small head trauma can have drastic impact on skils,
abilities and temprament.

--
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.

06-30-2003, 12:24 PM

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:16:25 GMT, 6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley
K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) from wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:11:17 +0000 (UTC), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Dave
>Rabinowitz) wrote:
>
>>>If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137
>>>lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 * (2/3) = 137
>>>[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
>>
>>This is a phony argument. For every bicycle head injury that results in
>>death there are about a thousand head injuries which result in various other
>>problems including permanent disabilities. Do a google search on bicycle
>>head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits to get a
>>better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.
>
>Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain
>scans to prove small head trauma can have drastic impact on skils,
>abilities and temprament.

Since head injuries can occur at any time or place, perhaps we should all wear
foam hats all the time. But what's that? People who bicycle are more likely to
get head injuries than those who don't? Ahh, now it's a different subject. Prove
it.

--
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] human rights = peace
I fill MY industrial waste containers with old copies of the
"WATCHTOWER" and then add HAWAIIAN PUNCH to the top ... They look NICE
in the yard ...
2:23:19 PM 30 June 2003

06-30-2003, 01:39 PM

6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Dave Rabinowitz) wrote:
>
> >Do a google search on
> >bicycle head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000
> >hits to get a better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.
>
> Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses
> brain scans to prove small head trauma can have drastic impact on skils,
> abilities and temprament.

....And spelling, I'd imagine... ;o)

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

06-30-2003, 03:16 PM

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:24:09 -0500, Kevan Smith
<kevansmith23@yahoo.c0/\/\> wrote:

>Since head injuries can occur at any time or place, perhaps we should all wear
>foam hats all the time. But what's that? People who bicycle are more likely to
>get head injuries than those who don't? Ahh, now it's a different subject. Prove
>it.

Playing soccer or american football, let alone rugby or aussie rules, in
gym class is probably a much bigger risk.

Jasper

07-01-2003, 10:43 AM

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:16:25 GMT, 6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley
K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
>>>>Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain
>>>>scans to prove small head trauma can have drastic impact on skils,
>>>>abilities and temprament.

>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:24:09 -0500, Kevan Smith
>> <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>> >Since head injuries can occur at any time or place, perhaps we should
>> >all wear foam hats all the time.

Or, perhaps, soften the edges of our environment.

>> >But what's that? People who bicycle are more
>> >likely to get head injuries than those who don't? Ahh, now it's a different
>> >subject. Prove it.

Please indicate where in the above I made the assertion.
Use a #2 pencil and stay between the lines.

>"Jasper Janssen" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote in message
>news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].. .
>> Playing soccer or american football, let alone rugby or aussie rules, in
>> gym class is probably a much bigger risk.

Yep. That's what Dr Amen says.
Go watch Muhammed Ali for details.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:20:23 -0700, "one of the six billion"
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
>A lifetime of eating at McDonalds is probably an even bigger risk.
<snip>

Risk to mental functioning? That was the thread, not risk to lifespan. You
seem to be engaging in topic drift.

--
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.

07-01-2003, 10:45 AM

On 30 Jun 2003 20:39:18 GMT, zeldabee <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
>> [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Dave Rabinowitz) wrote:
>>
>> >Do a google search on
>> >bicycle head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000
>> >hits to get a better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.
>>
>> Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses
>> brain scans to prove small head trauma can have drastic impact on skils,
>> abilities and temprament.
>
>...And spelling, I'd imagine... ;o)

Yes, ma'am. Guilty as charged.

But was it Webster, or Clemens, who found folks boring if they only knew
one way to spell a word?

--
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.

07-01-2003, 10:58 AM

6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
> On 30 Jun 2003 20:39:18 GMT, zeldabee <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:
> >6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
> >>
> >> Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses
> >> brain scans to prove small head trauma can have drastic impact on
> >> skils, abilities and temprament.
> >
> >...And spelling, I'd imagine... ;o)
>
> Yes, ma'am. Guilty as charged.
>
> But was it Webster, or Clemens, who found folks boring if they only knew
> one way to spell a word?

Could even be George Bernard Shaw or Lincoln, I suppose, who knows. Maybe
Bartleby would know...I just thought it was funny in context.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]