Holy shatz! Cop stops bicycle! - Page 27 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-13-2004, 05:47 PM

>> Bob Newman wrote:
>>> Too many to read every reply, I hope this wasn't touched on. We here in
>>> Florida have had police crack downs in the past giving cyclists tickets
>>> for not stopping, as you say "cyclists are subject to the same traffic
>>> laws as anyone else". That is not quite true in this case, cyclists are
>>> required to do more! Simply stopping at a stop sign can still get you a
>>> ticket IF you fail to put one foot fully on the ground. Comments?

> John David Galt wrote:
>> Sounds like the usual over-enforcement directed at auto drivers, where the
>> cop says you "didn't stop" if you didn't wait 5 seconds before proceeding.
>> The law needs to recognize that when your car rocks back on its springs,
>> you've stopped.

Bob Newman wrote:
> It is not overzealous. It has been taken to court. That is the way the
> law reads.

Not around here or in any state I've looked up, it doesn't. Neither "5
seconds" nor "one foot on the ground" is mentioned. The statute as written
merely requires a complete stop.

06-13-2004, 06:16 PM

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Norman Wilson wrote:

> >(In fact, Bloor street is busy 24 hours a day. There are *ALWAYS* cars
> >coming from three directions at the particular intersection this guy
> >blew.)
>
> Just out of curiousity: exactly which intersection?

Forget the street name; it's the traffic light four or five blocks West of
High Park Ave (the one *with* cross traffic)

-Stern

06-13-2004, 06:16 PM

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Norman Wilson wrote:

> >(In fact, Bloor street is busy 24 hours a day. There are *ALWAYS* cars
> >coming from three directions at the particular intersection this guy
> >blew.)
>
> Just out of curiousity: exactly which intersection?

Forget the street name; it's the traffic light four or five blocks West of
High Park Ave (the one *with* cross traffic)

-Stern

06-13-2004, 06:16 PM

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Norman Wilson wrote:

> >(In fact, Bloor street is busy 24 hours a day. There are *ALWAYS* cars
> >coming from three directions at the particular intersection this guy
> >blew.)
>
> Just out of curiousity: exactly which intersection?

Forget the street name; it's the traffic light four or five blocks West of
High Park Ave (the one *with* cross traffic)

-Stern

06-13-2004, 06:16 PM

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Norman Wilson wrote:

> >(In fact, Bloor street is busy 24 hours a day. There are *ALWAYS* cars
> >coming from three directions at the particular intersection this guy
> >blew.)
>
> Just out of curiousity: exactly which intersection?

Forget the street name; it's the traffic light four or five blocks West of
High Park Ave (the one *with* cross traffic)

-Stern

06-13-2004, 06:16 PM

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Norman Wilson wrote:

> >(In fact, Bloor street is busy 24 hours a day. There are *ALWAYS* cars
> >coming from three directions at the particular intersection this guy
> >blew.)
>
> Just out of curiousity: exactly which intersection?

Forget the street name; it's the traffic light four or five blocks West of
High Park Ave (the one *with* cross traffic)

-Stern

06-13-2004, 06:53 PM

"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
news

ostmaster-9D9EDC.18364512062004@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> "Paul" <UPS_SUCKS!@slower_traffic_get_to_the_right.com> wrote:
>
> >"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
> >news

ostmaster-C0C7A5.11023712062004@news6.west.earthlink.net...
> >> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406120010490.8911@alumni.engin.umi ch.edu>,
> >
> >> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate, yet is sounds very familliar to
> >> the debate over in rec.boats; there it's motor-boat vs sailboat.
> >> Different vehicles, but the same facts. How much property damage can a
> >> bicycle do compaired to a car? Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall
> >> of the local McDonald's killing and injuring happy meal eaters?
> >
> >A DUI bicyclist could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could cause a
> >car
> >operator to lose control of his vehicle and plow into a McDonalds.
>
> And a DUI driver could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could
> cause a bicyclest to lose control and plow into a McDonalds... Oops
> actually that's not the case is it, the bicyclest *can't* plow into a
> McDonalds.
>
> Your ignoring the central fact; a bicyclist simply *cannot* do the kind
> of damage that an auto driver can do. Because of this central fact,
> there really isn't as much need to ensure that bicyclests are skilled
> compared to auto drivers.

And you are ignoring the fact that while the bicyclist can not actually *do* the
damage, the cyclist can set in motion the events that *cause* the damage. i.e.: a
cyclist darts out into traffic from between two parked vehicles and an oncomming car
swerves to avoid the cyclist and hits one of those vehicles. The cyclist did not
physically do the damage, but was the cause of the damage.

At a bare minimum, bicyclists should be required to know the rules of the road and
should be required to obey them with the same consequences if they disregard the
rules of the road.

--
Paul

06-13-2004, 06:53 PM

"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
news

ostmaster-9D9EDC.18364512062004@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> "Paul" <UPS_SUCKS!@slower_traffic_get_to_the_right.com> wrote:
>
> >"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
> >news

ostmaster-C0C7A5.11023712062004@news6.west.earthlink.net...
> >> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406120010490.8911@alumni.engin.umi ch.edu>,
> >
> >> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate, yet is sounds very familliar to
> >> the debate over in rec.boats; there it's motor-boat vs sailboat.
> >> Different vehicles, but the same facts. How much property damage can a
> >> bicycle do compaired to a car? Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall
> >> of the local McDonald's killing and injuring happy meal eaters?
> >
> >A DUI bicyclist could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could cause a
> >car
> >operator to lose control of his vehicle and plow into a McDonalds.
>
> And a DUI driver could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could
> cause a bicyclest to lose control and plow into a McDonalds... Oops
> actually that's not the case is it, the bicyclest *can't* plow into a
> McDonalds.
>
> Your ignoring the central fact; a bicyclist simply *cannot* do the kind
> of damage that an auto driver can do. Because of this central fact,
> there really isn't as much need to ensure that bicyclests are skilled
> compared to auto drivers.

And you are ignoring the fact that while the bicyclist can not actually *do* the
damage, the cyclist can set in motion the events that *cause* the damage. i.e.: a
cyclist darts out into traffic from between two parked vehicles and an oncomming car
swerves to avoid the cyclist and hits one of those vehicles. The cyclist did not
physically do the damage, but was the cause of the damage.

At a bare minimum, bicyclists should be required to know the rules of the road and
should be required to obey them with the same consequences if they disregard the
rules of the road.

--
Paul

06-13-2004, 06:53 PM

"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
news

ostmaster-9D9EDC.18364512062004@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> "Paul" <UPS_SUCKS!@slower_traffic_get_to_the_right.com> wrote:
>
> >"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
> >news

ostmaster-C0C7A5.11023712062004@news6.west.earthlink.net...
> >> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406120010490.8911@alumni.engin.umi ch.edu>,
> >
> >> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate, yet is sounds very familliar to
> >> the debate over in rec.boats; there it's motor-boat vs sailboat.
> >> Different vehicles, but the same facts. How much property damage can a
> >> bicycle do compaired to a car? Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall
> >> of the local McDonald's killing and injuring happy meal eaters?
> >
> >A DUI bicyclist could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could cause a
> >car
> >operator to lose control of his vehicle and plow into a McDonalds.
>
> And a DUI driver could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could
> cause a bicyclest to lose control and plow into a McDonalds... Oops
> actually that's not the case is it, the bicyclest *can't* plow into a
> McDonalds.
>
> Your ignoring the central fact; a bicyclist simply *cannot* do the kind
> of damage that an auto driver can do. Because of this central fact,
> there really isn't as much need to ensure that bicyclests are skilled
> compared to auto drivers.

And you are ignoring the fact that while the bicyclist can not actually *do* the
damage, the cyclist can set in motion the events that *cause* the damage. i.e.: a
cyclist darts out into traffic from between two parked vehicles and an oncomming car
swerves to avoid the cyclist and hits one of those vehicles. The cyclist did not
physically do the damage, but was the cause of the damage.

At a bare minimum, bicyclists should be required to know the rules of the road and
should be required to obey them with the same consequences if they disregard the
rules of the road.

--
Paul

06-13-2004, 06:53 PM

"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
news

ostmaster-9D9EDC.18364512062004@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> "Paul" <UPS_SUCKS!@slower_traffic_get_to_the_right.com> wrote:
>
> >"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message
> >news

ostmaster-C0C7A5.11023712062004@news6.west.earthlink.net...
> >> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406120010490.8911@alumni.engin.umi ch.edu>,
> >
> >> I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate, yet is sounds very familliar to
> >> the debate over in rec.boats; there it's motor-boat vs sailboat.
> >> Different vehicles, but the same facts. How much property damage can a
> >> bicycle do compaired to a car? Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall
> >> of the local McDonald's killing and injuring happy meal eaters?
> >
> >A DUI bicyclist could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could cause a
> >car
> >operator to lose control of his vehicle and plow into a McDonalds.
>
> And a DUI driver could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could
> cause a bicyclest to lose control and plow into a McDonalds... Oops
> actually that's not the case is it, the bicyclest *can't* plow into a
> McDonalds.
>
> Your ignoring the central fact; a bicyclist simply *cannot* do the kind
> of damage that an auto driver can do. Because of this central fact,
> there really isn't as much need to ensure that bicyclests are skilled
> compared to auto drivers.

And you are ignoring the fact that while the bicyclist can not actually *do* the
damage, the cyclist can set in motion the events that *cause* the damage. i.e.: a
cyclist darts out into traffic from between two parked vehicles and an oncomming car
swerves to avoid the cyclist and hits one of those vehicles. The cyclist did not
physically do the damage, but was the cause of the damage.

At a bare minimum, bicyclists should be required to know the rules of the road and
should be required to obey them with the same consequences if they disregard the
rules of the road.

--
Paul