New (Old) Follis!! (warning: long rambling with rebuilding questions mixed in) - Page 3 - Cycling Mob: Road Cycling, Mountain Biking and More

06-15-2004, 08:40 AM

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

> ...
> It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
> paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
> Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
> wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
> drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
> it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
> great fit for my younger brother.

This is really cool!

> ...
> It is of course a fixer-upper...

Even better. He gets to "help" you work on it, he learns a bit about
practical work and its benefits, and he takes more responsibility for
the bike.

Suggestion: If you don't already have one, get a good book on bike
repair. (If you get it at the library, he learns yet another valuable
lesson!)

> The front derailleur has somehow snapped off at the clamp, so that
> will have to go. I can't simply swap over the derailleur from my old
> Raleigh, since this is a clamp-on jobbie, and the Raleigh used a
> braze-on front derailleur. Would it be all right if I just removed
> the front derailleur and thus made it, temporarily at least, a
> five-speed bicycle?

Should work, although used front derailleurs should be easy to find.
You could ask at your LBS. Or maybe even visit a local thrift store,
where you can sometimes get an entire bike's supply of "spare parts,"
fully assembled, for about $10.

> I understand the chain line will be rather less
> than ideal, but I want to make this rideable for my brother as soon as
> possible. Should I shorten the chain when I do this?

I doubt it. The rear derailleur will probably handle things fine.

> The chain is
> extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
> the present one?

Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

>
> And the pedals. They're simple rat-trap jobs, with reflectors on both
> sides. I want to fit him with toeclips as soon as he's confident
> enough to wear them. Do I just pry off the reflector on one side of
> the pedal and screw on the toeclips?

Yep. But I'd wait until he's _really_ confident. You can make toe
clips a badge of honor to work towards.

> Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
> I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
> isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
> threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
> can't afford to buy new pedals!)

Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
with pedals on the bike.

>
> The rear derailleur looks serviceable. It could do with some cleaning
> and lubrication. It seems to be bolted on via an adaptor claw of some
> sort; too soon to tell whether or not this could be replaced with the
> (presumably better, 1985 vintage) Shimano 105 unit from the Raleigh.

If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
hard to find out.

Hmmm. If you've got an ancient bike shop nearby with a packrat owner,
you're going to come to love him!

>
> Short term: New tires, tubes (presta tubes in schraeder drillings
> work, sizewise: do I risk flats from grit getting in though?)

I'm not sure, but I'd ask about those Schrader-to-Presta rubber
bushings. Maybe ten cents each.

> new chain(?),

Maybe not.

> remove broken front derailleur & cable & shifter.

Oh, heck, give him a used front derailleur.

> Clean frame & freewheel.

Yep.

> Fit toeclips.

I'd wait.
>
> Longer term: Replace derailleurs with more useful units, preferrably
> serviceable partsbin stuff. Replace shifters with bar-end shifters
> (frame has no downtube shifter bosses, but has cable guides. With the
> randonneur bars, I assume this was intended for use with barcons).

Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
could be a birthday present some day.

>
> I'll get photos of the project up in its several stages on the
> Livejournal soon. In the meantime, any help that you all might be
> able to offer is as ever appreciated. Once this is all over, I'll be
> able to take him with me for rides in the country. That would be
> cool.

Congratulations. Excellent project! I think it's really cool that
you're doing this with him.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

06-15-2004, 07:23 PM

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:40:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> ...
>> It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
>> paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
>> Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
>> wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
>> drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
>> it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
>> great fit for my younger brother.
>
>This is really cool!

I use to work on those all the time in the "old" days. You may have
some trouble finding new shoes for those Mafac brakes if they are the
ones I'm thinking of.

>> The chain is
>> extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
>> the present one?
>
>Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
>mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
>problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

I'd clean it to. Buy a can of degreaser, or put it in a steel can and
spray some oven cleaner in (avoid everything else). Soak, rinse, wash,
dry, oil. If you have a chain tool it's almost free.

>> Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
>> I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
>> isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
>> threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
>> can't afford to buy new pedals!)

If you can find a shop with taps, you can run it through and go with
a standard pedal. We used to do that, even on alloy cranks. You just
have to be careful.

>Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
>accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
>overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
>probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
>balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
>with pedals on the bike.

Good suggestion.

>If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
>modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
>much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
>if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
>hard to find out.

Siplex used a different design which the early shimano's copied. While
the plastic version was not perfect, it's actually a fairly good
shifter. I wouldn't change it unless you have a lot of chain to
handle. The short simplex cage would not handle lots of chain and they
had an extended version for that.

>
>Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
>could be a birthday present some day.

Yeah, stems are good for new riders. Much easier to work./

I'll drop you an email. I might have some stuff in my parts bin that
you could use. It'll be dirt cheap if you want any of it. I'd rather
see someone get some use out of it than see it sit in a box for the
rest of my life.

06-15-2004, 07:23 PM

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:40:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> ...
>> It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
>> paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
>> Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
>> wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
>> drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
>> it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
>> great fit for my younger brother.
>
>This is really cool!

I use to work on those all the time in the "old" days. You may have
some trouble finding new shoes for those Mafac brakes if they are the
ones I'm thinking of.

>> The chain is
>> extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
>> the present one?
>
>Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
>mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
>problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

I'd clean it to. Buy a can of degreaser, or put it in a steel can and
spray some oven cleaner in (avoid everything else). Soak, rinse, wash,
dry, oil. If you have a chain tool it's almost free.

>> Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
>> I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
>> isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
>> threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
>> can't afford to buy new pedals!)

If you can find a shop with taps, you can run it through and go with
a standard pedal. We used to do that, even on alloy cranks. You just
have to be careful.

>Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
>accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
>overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
>probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
>balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
>with pedals on the bike.

Good suggestion.

>If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
>modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
>much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
>if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
>hard to find out.

Siplex used a different design which the early shimano's copied. While
the plastic version was not perfect, it's actually a fairly good
shifter. I wouldn't change it unless you have a lot of chain to
handle. The short simplex cage would not handle lots of chain and they
had an extended version for that.

>
>Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
>could be a birthday present some day.

Yeah, stems are good for new riders. Much easier to work./

I'll drop you an email. I might have some stuff in my parts bin that
you could use. It'll be dirt cheap if you want any of it. I'd rather
see someone get some use out of it than see it sit in a box for the
rest of my life.

06-15-2004, 07:23 PM

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:40:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> ...
>> It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
>> paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
>> Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
>> wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
>> drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
>> it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
>> great fit for my younger brother.
>
>This is really cool!

I use to work on those all the time in the "old" days. You may have
some trouble finding new shoes for those Mafac brakes if they are the
ones I'm thinking of.

>> The chain is
>> extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
>> the present one?
>
>Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
>mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
>problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

I'd clean it to. Buy a can of degreaser, or put it in a steel can and
spray some oven cleaner in (avoid everything else). Soak, rinse, wash,
dry, oil. If you have a chain tool it's almost free.

>> Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
>> I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
>> isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
>> threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
>> can't afford to buy new pedals!)

If you can find a shop with taps, you can run it through and go with
a standard pedal. We used to do that, even on alloy cranks. You just
have to be careful.

>Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
>accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
>overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
>probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
>balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
>with pedals on the bike.

Good suggestion.

>If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
>modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
>much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
>if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
>hard to find out.

Siplex used a different design which the early shimano's copied. While
the plastic version was not perfect, it's actually a fairly good
shifter. I wouldn't change it unless you have a lot of chain to
handle. The short simplex cage would not handle lots of chain and they
had an extended version for that.

>
>Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
>could be a birthday present some day.

Yeah, stems are good for new riders. Much easier to work./

I'll drop you an email. I might have some stuff in my parts bin that
you could use. It'll be dirt cheap if you want any of it. I'd rather
see someone get some use out of it than see it sit in a box for the
rest of my life.

06-15-2004, 07:23 PM

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:40:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> ...
>> It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
>> paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
>> Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
>> wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
>> drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
>> it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
>> great fit for my younger brother.
>
>This is really cool!

I use to work on those all the time in the "old" days. You may have
some trouble finding new shoes for those Mafac brakes if they are the
ones I'm thinking of.

>> The chain is
>> extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
>> the present one?
>
>Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
>mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
>problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

I'd clean it to. Buy a can of degreaser, or put it in a steel can and
spray some oven cleaner in (avoid everything else). Soak, rinse, wash,
dry, oil. If you have a chain tool it's almost free.

>> Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
>> I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
>> isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
>> threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
>> can't afford to buy new pedals!)

If you can find a shop with taps, you can run it through and go with
a standard pedal. We used to do that, even on alloy cranks. You just
have to be careful.

>Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
>accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
>overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
>probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
>balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
>with pedals on the bike.

Good suggestion.

>If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
>modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
>much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
>if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
>hard to find out.

Siplex used a different design which the early shimano's copied. While
the plastic version was not perfect, it's actually a fairly good
shifter. I wouldn't change it unless you have a lot of chain to
handle. The short simplex cage would not handle lots of chain and they
had an extended version for that.

>
>Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
>could be a birthday present some day.

Yeah, stems are good for new riders. Much easier to work./

I'll drop you an email. I might have some stuff in my parts bin that
you could use. It'll be dirt cheap if you want any of it. I'd rather
see someone get some use out of it than see it sit in a box for the
rest of my life.

06-15-2004, 07:23 PM

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:40:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

>Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> ...
>> It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
>> paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
>> Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
>> wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
>> drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
>> it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
>> great fit for my younger brother.
>
>This is really cool!

I use to work on those all the time in the "old" days. You may have
some trouble finding new shoes for those Mafac brakes if they are the
ones I'm thinking of.

>> The chain is
>> extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
>> the present one?
>
>Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
>mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
>problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

I'd clean it to. Buy a can of degreaser, or put it in a steel can and
spray some oven cleaner in (avoid everything else). Soak, rinse, wash,
dry, oil. If you have a chain tool it's almost free.

>> Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
>> I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
>> isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
>> threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
>> can't afford to buy new pedals!)

If you can find a shop with taps, you can run it through and go with
a standard pedal. We used to do that, even on alloy cranks. You just
have to be careful.

>Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
>accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
>overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
>probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
>balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
>with pedals on the bike.

Good suggestion.

>If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
>modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
>much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
>if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
>hard to find out.

Siplex used a different design which the early shimano's copied. While
the plastic version was not perfect, it's actually a fairly good
shifter. I wouldn't change it unless you have a lot of chain to
handle. The short simplex cage would not handle lots of chain and they
had an extended version for that.

>
>Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
>could be a birthday present some day.

Yeah, stems are good for new riders. Much easier to work./

I'll drop you an email. I might have some stuff in my parts bin that
you could use. It'll be dirt cheap if you want any of it. I'd rather
see someone get some use out of it than see it sit in a box for the
rest of my life.

06-16-2004, 06:49 AM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

[snip]

> [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not
> strong enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even
> do that, and I'm 23! ]

Just a small point - the smallest sprocket on the Follis is probably a 13
or 14. If the chain is happy to stay put on one chainring or the other, the
bike can be ridden without the front derailleur, and the chain shifted
manually if the need arises. If the chain tends to derail easily at the
front (as is sometimes the case with single-chainring bikes) the simplest
solution is to fit a front derailleur.

Good luck.

James Thomson

06-16-2004, 06:49 AM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

[snip]

> [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not
> strong enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even
> do that, and I'm 23! ]

Just a small point - the smallest sprocket on the Follis is probably a 13
or 14. If the chain is happy to stay put on one chainring or the other, the
bike can be ridden without the front derailleur, and the chain shifted
manually if the need arises. If the chain tends to derail easily at the
front (as is sometimes the case with single-chainring bikes) the simplest
solution is to fit a front derailleur.

Good luck.

James Thomson

06-16-2004, 06:49 AM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

[snip]

> [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not
> strong enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even
> do that, and I'm 23! ]

Just a small point - the smallest sprocket on the Follis is probably a 13
or 14. If the chain is happy to stay put on one chainring or the other, the
bike can be ridden without the front derailleur, and the chain shifted
manually if the need arises. If the chain tends to derail easily at the
front (as is sometimes the case with single-chainring bikes) the simplest
solution is to fit a front derailleur.

Good luck.

James Thomson

06-16-2004, 06:49 AM

"Luigi de Guzman" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]> wrote:

[snip]

> [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not
> strong enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even
> do that, and I'm 23! ]

Just a small point - the smallest sprocket on the Follis is probably a 13
or 14. If the chain is happy to stay put on one chainring or the other, the
bike can be ridden without the front derailleur, and the chain shifted
manually if the need arises. If the chain tends to derail easily at the
front (as is sometimes the case with single-chainring bikes) the simplest
solution is to fit a front derailleur.

Good luck.

James Thomson